Low dyno and low track times?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 96
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From: Burlingame, CA
Low dyno and low track times? Tonight I went to the track and I ran a 11.93 at 113.4 without my bottle. Yesterday I went to the dyno and dynoed 378RWHP and 346RWTQ. My car is running perfect but it is just puttingg down low numbers. I have every bolt on as you can see in my sig and I hook pretty good(1.64 60'). I was wondering if you guys think it is my heads giving me low numbers, because I see guys with stock heads putting down better numbers then me and it is disapointing. I have ARE stage 2 heads and a TR224 cam. I am happy that I broke into the 11's but the results arent anywhere near where I thought.(by the way before all my mods, except for headers, lid and converter I ran a 12.4 at 110) so I obviously didnt pick up much with my heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Any input is appreciated.
<small>[ August 17, 2002, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: BadAssY2KTA ]</small>
<small>[ August 17, 2002, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: BadAssY2KTA ]</small>
D(irecto)r Pepper
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,952
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From: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.
Re: Low dyno and low track times? So, how much timing do you have? How much knock retard?
(I dont know is not an acceptable answer)
Have you checked your spark plugs lately...
(I dont know is not an acceptable answer)
Have you checked your spark plugs lately...
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Burlingame, CA
Re: Low dyno and low track times? Sorry about the sig got it now, during the run my initial timing was 26 and went up to 29.5 with no KR. My A/F on the dyno was 12.9 so these areas arent the problems. Everything looks good, sounds good and shows good curves just the power isnt as high as it should be. I mean there are guys with stock heads and the same cam making the same power as me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 588
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From: SC
Re: Low dyno and low track times? Welcome to the world of ARE. I have the S2 heads also, and even after upgrading my cam to a 226/234 554/575, my car is putting down less than 400rwhp (its an M6). My track times also correspondingly suck -- the car runs only slightly faster than it did with just a B1 cam, and I have upgraded everything from my exhaust, headers, rear end, clutch, plugs, etc.... Im not sure if the posts are still up (since ARE is a sponsor), but there are a bunch of us with low dynoing ARE S2sm, you might be able to search. I can give you a list of about 7 others that dynoed below 400rwhp with these heads.
There isnt much you can do. The heads produced almost no power for me (less than 10rwhp, being generous). You will not be able to get ahold of ARE (I have tried going on a dozen times now, emails, calls) they will ingore you. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Oh the general consensus seems to be that the heads are inconsistantly ported (at best), and overported ("hogged out") at worst. This screws up the intake velocity, and unless you are running nitrous or stroker you will not be able to make use of this porting (and overly large intake valves).
There isnt much you can do. The heads produced almost no power for me (less than 10rwhp, being generous). You will not be able to get ahold of ARE (I have tried going on a dozen times now, emails, calls) they will ingore you. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Oh the general consensus seems to be that the heads are inconsistantly ported (at best), and overported ("hogged out") at worst. This screws up the intake velocity, and unless you are running nitrous or stroker you will not be able to make use of this porting (and overly large intake valves).
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Burlingame, CA
Re: Low dyno and low track times? Yea thats what I was afraid of. I have read some of the other posts on this and really hoped this wasnt the case for me. I talked to nick a few weeks ago and he seemed helpful but havent been able to get ahold of him lately. Hopefully he can help me out, but if he doesnt all of us with low numbers should get together and try to do something about it. We all paid 2000+ dollars to get what, absoluelty nothing. I wish i went with GTP. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />
Re: Low dyno and low track times? Maybe things have changed at ARE.. I personally know 2 guys who ran with ARE setups. Richie Carbone and Tim Sloper(aka TIMZ28). Both of them ran mid 11's on motor. Yes it took Richie awhile secondary to other issues he was having, but he did it.. His dyno #'s were not super but his car ran with the best of them.. Tim also ran mid 11's on motor and a 10.6 I think on spray.. Tim's dyno #'s were not that impressive either. I think he dyno'd like 365rwhp on motor... Tim sold the heads and the new owner dyno'd 410rwhp.. I am sure whoever purchased Richies heads will see crazy #'s as well.. I really do not know what to tell you.. I am running slower at the track than I was on my last setup. Granite I am rusty and I was shifting at 6k rpm, but I expected more.. It is summer time you know.. If you hate your heads so much. Lets trade <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<small>[ August 17, 2002, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
<small>[ August 17, 2002, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
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Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 96
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From: Burlingame, CA
Re: Low dyno and low track times? Yea i know, i am not that disapointed with the ETs but the mph is really low, it seams like I really didnt gain to much with all I did, and I did alot. Maybe with some more tinkering I will be able to make it faster. And I should still be able to hit tens on spray, if i do that I will be really happy.
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Verdad Gallardo Re: Low dyno and low track times? You have all the stuff to hit 10's. Looking at your sig you have all the good stuff as well.. More than me to be exact. Good luck and let me know when you want to do that head swap.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 588
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From: SC
Re: Low dyno and low track times? I suppose that is the one consolation (maybe), that we should do well if we spray.
I really wanted a stronger NA setup personally. I have seen a few people do well on ARE setups, the two mentioned above, ONYXSS, and a couple others have done really well. However, I also have seen a much higher proportion of low power outputs on the ARE setups than any other setup by far.
At least you hit 11s! My best so far is a 12.12@115.3mph (80+ temp, nearly 100% humidity also), with a 1.72 60', full weight minus spare. With a bit cooler weather and a better launch, I will hit 11s, but I know I will not consistantly be hitting mid 11s like most other H/C setups seem to do, or even come close to dipping into low 11s NA. My MPH also sucks, less than 2 mph faster than the same time last year when I was running a B1 cam, stock heads, and shortie headers.
Good luck with Nick and your setup.
I really wanted a stronger NA setup personally. I have seen a few people do well on ARE setups, the two mentioned above, ONYXSS, and a couple others have done really well. However, I also have seen a much higher proportion of low power outputs on the ARE setups than any other setup by far.
At least you hit 11s! My best so far is a 12.12@115.3mph (80+ temp, nearly 100% humidity also), with a 1.72 60', full weight minus spare. With a bit cooler weather and a better launch, I will hit 11s, but I know I will not consistantly be hitting mid 11s like most other H/C setups seem to do, or even come close to dipping into low 11s NA. My MPH also sucks, less than 2 mph faster than the same time last year when I was running a B1 cam, stock heads, and shortie headers.
Good luck with Nick and your setup.
Re: Low dyno and low track times? [
Oh the general consensus seems to be that the heads are inconsistantly ported (at best), and overported ("hogged out") at worst. This screws up the intake velocity, and unless you are running nitrous or stroker you will not be able to make use of this porting (and overly large intake valves).[/QB][/QUOTE]
Those are not overly large intake valves but they may be over ported. My S2 heads use 2.05 intakes and I have excelant valocity. I make over 400 hp. I think the valve size is perfect for this motor. Good port wook is key.
Nate
Oh the general consensus seems to be that the heads are inconsistantly ported (at best), and overported ("hogged out") at worst. This screws up the intake velocity, and unless you are running nitrous or stroker you will not be able to make use of this porting (and overly large intake valves).[/QB][/QUOTE]
Those are not overly large intake valves but they may be over ported. My S2 heads use 2.05 intakes and I have excelant valocity. I make over 400 hp. I think the valve size is perfect for this motor. Good port wook is key.
Nate
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: SC
Re: Low dyno and low track times? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nasty N8:
<strong>[
Oh the general consensus seems to be that the heads are inconsistantly ported (at best), and overported ("hogged out") at worst. This screws up the intake velocity, and unless you are running nitrous or stroker you will not be able to make use of this porting (and overly large intake valves).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those are not overly large intake valves but they may be over ported. My S2 heads use 2.05 intakes and I have excelant valocity. I make over 400 hp. I think the valve size is perfect for this motor. Good port wook is key.
Nate[/QB][/QUOTE]
2.05? No I dont have 2.05, I have 2.08. Although I thought I was getting 2.055s, I was later informed that all the newer ARE s2 setups use 2.08s now. But I do agree, good portwork is more of a factor.
<strong>[
Oh the general consensus seems to be that the heads are inconsistantly ported (at best), and overported ("hogged out") at worst. This screws up the intake velocity, and unless you are running nitrous or stroker you will not be able to make use of this porting (and overly large intake valves).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those are not overly large intake valves but they may be over ported. My S2 heads use 2.05 intakes and I have excelant valocity. I make over 400 hp. I think the valve size is perfect for this motor. Good port wook is key.
Nate[/QB][/QUOTE]
2.05? No I dont have 2.05, I have 2.08. Although I thought I was getting 2.055s, I was later informed that all the newer ARE s2 setups use 2.08s now. But I do agree, good portwork is more of a factor.
Re: Low dyno and low track times? Remember, dyno #'s are not the tell all. Take it to the track.. Oh wait, you did that already.. Ok let me try again.. When I complain I get... "Your #'s are avg or its not that bad or just buy some new heads or your expectations are too high or its your exhaust or better headers will fix that or its tuning or I told you to go with GTP/MTI/etc.." You know what? I am not spending another dime.. I have to live with my mistake.. In a year or so I will change my setup, but not now. For now I will watch the big dyno people live now.. I am now a spectator..
Re: Low dyno and low track times? Let me add.. I picked up more from opening my cutout than adding FlowTechnics 5.3L Stage 2 heads.. I have the same exhaust setup that I had when I dyno'd 390rwhp/380rwtq from my old cam and Mac headers with OR Pipe setup. I just did not have a cutout back then.. I also had 3.42's back then as well.. Now I have 4.10's. Let me break it down.. Old setup with 3.42's I dyno'd 390rwhp/380rwtq.. New heads and 3.42's I dyno'd 402rwhp/388rwtq.. Thats a 12rwhp/8rwtq increase. WOW!!! Added the 4.10's and I dyno'd 396rwhp/382rwtq. Pretty impressive huh!!! Added a cutout and dyno'd 411rwhp/393rwtq.. 15rwhp/11rwtq increase from the cutouts.. If I go back to 3.42's I might hit 420rwhp with the cutout open.. I guess that is good for Flow Technics first set of 5.3L heads.. The bottom line is no matter what they tell you. There are no promises that you can make them keep.. You can either live with it or go broke.. Like Elvis said" THANK YOU VERY MUCH! "
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Burlingame, CA
Re: Low dyno and low track times? Vince your numbers look pretty good, I would be happy with those. But i have a measley 350RWTQ, thats the part that kills me, there are cars with no heads or cam with that much. So seeing that I am really disapointed. Maybe I will put a 3" Ypipe in with dual cutouts and see what that gives me. It is just disapointing that you go with the guy that everybody said " go with ARE and you wont be disapointed" but now, with 2200 less dollars in my bank acount, I am disapointed along with many other people.