Installing Cam - dot to dot...or ???
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From: Gettysburg, PA
Installing Cam - dot to dot...or ??? I finally got some time to install the F14 Ive have been waiting to put in but I have noticed alot of the guys on here saying to install a cam dot-to-dot or advanced X degrees, or any other way so I am unsure as to how to install mine when the time comes. Im not sure what specs go into calculating this so I will list all the engine mods and the new cams:
Engine:
-Thunder Racing T-Rex cam (243/249 @ .050, .608"/.613" lift, 110 LSA)
-Patriot Gold dual spring kit
-Thunder Racing heat treated chrome-moly pushrods (7.400 i beleive i will have to check)
-Rollmaster heat treated adjustable double roller timing set
-Thunder Racing billet MAF ends, black
-Jantzer ported and black powdercoated throttle body
-LS6 intake manifold
-March underdrive pulley
-ARP Pro Series rod bolts
-Ported LS6 oil pump
-Prothane poly motor mounts
-NGK Iridium plugs
-Taylor Thundervolt 10.4mm wires
cam is an F14 (232/234 .598/.598 112LSA +2)
Engine:
-Thunder Racing T-Rex cam (243/249 @ .050, .608"/.613" lift, 110 LSA)
-Patriot Gold dual spring kit
-Thunder Racing heat treated chrome-moly pushrods (7.400 i beleive i will have to check)
-Rollmaster heat treated adjustable double roller timing set
-Thunder Racing billet MAF ends, black
-Jantzer ported and black powdercoated throttle body
-LS6 intake manifold
-March underdrive pulley
-ARP Pro Series rod bolts
-Ported LS6 oil pump
-Prothane poly motor mounts
-NGK Iridium plugs
-Taylor Thundervolt 10.4mm wires
cam is an F14 (232/234 .598/.598 112LSA +2)
Dot to dot would give you a ICL of 110, if you advance it 1 degree it your ICL is 109. Advancing it will close the intake valve earlier and open the exhaust valve earlier. It is a tradeoff of power on either end of the rpm range. if you are completely unfamiliar with degreeing a cam then just install it dot to dot.
Anyway you would need an adjustable timing set to degree it anyway.
Anyway you would need an adjustable timing set to degree it anyway.
You can buy the cloyes hex-adjust timing set if you want to advance or retard it. Its so easy to use too, all you do it line the sprokets up dot to dot, then you just turn a little hex bushing to advance or retard it, each tick mark on the busging is 2 degrees. I have one and it is really easy.
Thread Starter
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From: Gettysburg, PA
So if i did have this timing set, ideally were should I install the cam, and what would it change. I dont completely understand how VE's effect power and where you get it.
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Originally Posted by LS1IMPULSE
So if i did have this timing set, ideally were should I install the cam, and what would it change. I dont completely understand how VE's effect power and where you get it.
Dot to Dot: IVO:2 degrees BTDC and EVC:2 degrees ADTC means that overlap is centered over TDC. Total overlap is 4 degrees.
1 degree retard- IVO: 1 degree BTDC EVC:3 degrees ATDC means that overlap is more biased to the exhaust. Still 4 degrees overlap.
1 degree advance- IVO: 3 degree BTDC EVC:1 degrees ATDC means that overlap is more biased to the intake. Still 4 degrees overlap.
You can use the DCR calculator and play with your degree numbers(ICl) to see what ICL will make you overlap as close to centered over TDC.
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Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (42)
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Gettysburg, PA
So if i understand correctly the ICL is the degrees you advance or retard the cam from dot-to-dot and it looks like you included the +2 ground into the cam for the VE's correct?
So then what is the difference between grinding the advance/retard into the cam and doing it by not installing dot to dot?
Also do you maybe know were I could find an article that will explain how all the VE effect everything, and I noticed that some of the big guys on here talk about"matching there VE's", but what do you match them to? Maybe the other mods they have, like a free-flowing exhaust you would want more exhaust duration or lift? Or if you have a set of ported heads with a great high CFM flowing intake you want more itake duration/lift. And what would it be better to add duration or lift since they both pretty much effect how long the valve is open what would be the difference in 232 duration .600 lift -and- 228 duration .630 lift (or whatever would allow the valve to stay open just as long as the first scenario)
So then what is the difference between grinding the advance/retard into the cam and doing it by not installing dot to dot?
Also do you maybe know were I could find an article that will explain how all the VE effect everything, and I noticed that some of the big guys on here talk about"matching there VE's", but what do you match them to? Maybe the other mods they have, like a free-flowing exhaust you would want more exhaust duration or lift? Or if you have a set of ported heads with a great high CFM flowing intake you want more itake duration/lift. And what would it be better to add duration or lift since they both pretty much effect how long the valve is open what would be the difference in 232 duration .600 lift -and- 228 duration .630 lift (or whatever would allow the valve to stay open just as long as the first scenario)
Last edited by LS1IMPULSE; Mar 7, 2007 at 02:15 PM.
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Austin
another question on this since I'm installing the rollermaster double adjustable timing set tomorrow. If i just line it up dot to dot, I'm cool right? Is there anyway that i could possible screw up on accident and retard or advance it by not knowing even if the dots are exact?
<-- never messed with an adjustable timing chain.
<-- never messed with an adjustable timing chain.
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 290
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From: Austin
Originally Posted by LS1IMPULSE
So if i understand correctly the ICL is the degrees you advance or retard the cam from dot-to-dot and it looks like you included the +2 ground into the cam for the VE's correct?
So then what is the difference between grinding the advance/retard into the cam and doing it by not installing dot to dot?
Also do you maybe know were I could find an article that will explain how all the VE effect everything, and I noticed that some of the big guys on here talk about"matching there VE's", but what do you match them to? Maybe the other mods they have, like a free-flowing exhaust you would want more exhaust duration or lift? Or if you have a set of ported heads with a great high CFM flowing intake you want more itake duration/lift. And what would it be better to add duration or lift since they both pretty much effect how long the valve is open what would be the difference in 232 duration .600 lift -and- 228 duration .630 lift (or whatever would allow the valve to stay open just as long as the first scenario)
So then what is the difference between grinding the advance/retard into the cam and doing it by not installing dot to dot?
Also do you maybe know were I could find an article that will explain how all the VE effect everything, and I noticed that some of the big guys on here talk about"matching there VE's", but what do you match them to? Maybe the other mods they have, like a free-flowing exhaust you would want more exhaust duration or lift? Or if you have a set of ported heads with a great high CFM flowing intake you want more itake duration/lift. And what would it be better to add duration or lift since they both pretty much effect how long the valve is open what would be the difference in 232 duration .600 lift -and- 228 duration .630 lift (or whatever would allow the valve to stay open just as long as the first scenario)
If you want to install the Rollmaster straight up (no advance), it's really easy. On the front of the sprocket is a big dimple. This marks the keyway (slot) that the crank key should go into. Then the actual timing mark is at the base of the teeth of the sprocket. Line that dot up with the dot on the cam gear and you're good. Obviously, you want to make sure that you're at TDC when you do this.
Launching!
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From: Austin
Originally Posted by PAGregSS
If you want to install the Rollmaster straight up (no advance), it's really easy. On the front of the sprocket is a big dimple. This marks the keyway (slot) that the crank key should go into. Then the actual timing mark is at the base of the teeth of the sprocket. Line that dot up with the dot on the cam gear and you're good. Obviously, you want to make sure that you're at TDC when you do this.
okay, it was hoping it was as simple as this.
Thanks!
To get TDC, you just have to have the dots lined up before you take the sprokets off right?
You should pull the spark plug on the #1 cylinder to make sure that it's at TDC when the marks are aligned. I believe the timing marks will be dot to dot twice in each firing order. You want TDC for the #1 cylinder. With that MS4 you'll really want to make sure your dead on as you won't have much room for error.
Originally Posted by LS1IMPULSE
So if i understand correctly the ICL is the degrees you advance or retard the cam from dot-to-dot and it looks like you included the +2 ground into the cam for the VE's correct?
So then what is the difference between grinding the advance/retard into the cam and doing it by not installing dot to dot?
Also do you maybe know were I could find an article that will explain how all the VE effect everything, and I noticed that some of the big guys on here talk about"matching there VE's", but what do you match them to? Maybe the other mods they have, like a free-flowing exhaust you would want more exhaust duration or lift? Or if you have a set of ported heads with a great high CFM flowing intake you want more itake duration/lift. And what would it be better to add duration or lift since they both pretty much effect how long the valve is open what would be the difference in 232 duration .600 lift -and- 228 duration .630 lift (or whatever would allow the valve to stay open just as long as the first scenario)
So then what is the difference between grinding the advance/retard into the cam and doing it by not installing dot to dot?
Also do you maybe know were I could find an article that will explain how all the VE effect everything, and I noticed that some of the big guys on here talk about"matching there VE's", but what do you match them to? Maybe the other mods they have, like a free-flowing exhaust you would want more exhaust duration or lift? Or if you have a set of ported heads with a great high CFM flowing intake you want more itake duration/lift. And what would it be better to add duration or lift since they both pretty much effect how long the valve is open what would be the difference in 232 duration .600 lift -and- 228 duration .630 lift (or whatever would allow the valve to stay open just as long as the first scenario)
A 112 LSA cam with 2 degrees advance ground in it should have an ICL of 110 if you install it dot to dot. Its the same thing as having a 112 LSA with zero advnace ground in but you degree it 2 degrees on install, 110 ICL.
You match your cam to your entire setup, heads, exhaust, intake, motor are all parts to sonsider when trying to pick a cam.
Originally Posted by tuffass
another question on this since I'm installing the rollermaster double adjustable timing set tomorrow. If i just line it up dot to dot, I'm cool right? Is there anyway that i could possible screw up on accident and retard or advance it by not knowing even if the dots are exact?
<-- never messed with an adjustable timing chain.
<-- never messed with an adjustable timing chain.
Originally Posted by PAGregSS
You should pull the spark plug on the #1 cylinder to make sure that it's at TDC when the marks are aligned. I believe the timing marks will be dot to dot twice in each firing order. You want TDC for the #1 cylinder. With that MS4 you'll really want to make sure your dead on as you won't have much room for error.
