How big is too big with reverse split cams???
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How big is too big with reverse split cams??? Looking to go the reverse split route. I have GTP Stage 2 4.8 heads milled .015, running Cometic head gaskets (.043")-I believe, Wiseco pistons,
stock rods, arp rod bolts etc. etc. My question is this---How big of a reverse split cam can I go with and what effect would a lower LSA have with the reverse split--say 108 or so. I also would like to keep the lift around .600" as my heads flow well up to that point--307cfm intake and 219 exhaust at .600" lift. I would think that I could go larger on duration and lift as compared to say a TR230/224 b/c of the valve reliefs in the Wisecos. Just looking to get around 7000rpms out of the motor with decent low end power. Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
stock rods, arp rod bolts etc. etc. My question is this---How big of a reverse split cam can I go with and what effect would a lower LSA have with the reverse split--say 108 or so. I also would like to keep the lift around .600" as my heads flow well up to that point--307cfm intake and 219 exhaust at .600" lift. I would think that I could go larger on duration and lift as compared to say a TR230/224 b/c of the valve reliefs in the Wisecos. Just looking to get around 7000rpms out of the motor with decent low end power. Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? travis, the 230 intake number has made some huge power. take a look at the peak HP of the bigger boys like the 232 T2 cam. it did not make much peak over the 230 cams on 346". but then again, i remember back in the ls1 days when MTI THEMSELVES said it was a waste of time to go bigger than the 221 duration B1 cam! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> start something new! but i know that the 230/230 made sacrifices in the midrange that reverse split does not.
PS - the ring and pinion are going back in this week and then we will start guttin her out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
PS - the ring and pinion are going back in this week and then we will start guttin her out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
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Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? I didn't want to go too much bigger than the TR cam, maybe 232/226 .610/.610 ???LSA Maybe 110? Not sure how lsa affects the reverse splits torque peak. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
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Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? How many degrees of reverse split is too much?
On the same note but for a tamer set up, what do you think of the following all on XE-R lobes and 114 LSA with about .566 lift.
224/220
225/220
225/222
I want to get a TR-220 or B1 quality idle with a TR-224's top end charge.
On the same note but for a tamer set up, what do you think of the following all on XE-R lobes and 114 LSA with about .566 lift.
224/220
225/220
225/222
I want to get a TR-220 or B1 quality idle with a TR-224's top end charge.
Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? That mainly depends on the combo.. You will be swapping things left and right to see if you can get more horsepower over the TR230/224. I have a bigger reverse split. I love my cam and it is on a 110 lsa. If you do not mind hot start idle problems then it is the cam for you. One thing I see is when a few cars, I emphasize on a few cars, dyno good with a cam. People automatically think that they should get the same # or better. Remember, not everyone tells the truth about their particular combo and what they did when they dyno'd the car. The TR224 cam has been proven to dyno in excess of 440rwhp with a good set of heads. In theory the reverse split should dyno higher, but this is not always the case. Why? The combo and tuning.. W/out those two important factors.. You are shooting in the wind. My cam is a 232/226 XE-R lsa 110 and I am about to find out what it would do on stock heads..
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Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? Hey VINCE...What kind of lift does that 232/226 cam have??? Like I said earlier in this thread, I'd like to try to keep the lift around .600 b/c that is where my GTP's level off. I'm not someone who is obsessed with the highest dyno #'s, I use the dyno as a tuning tool only. I just want a cam that is going to utilize the full potential of my heads on my 346, I think the lift of the 230/224 would be leaving a little on the table with my ported heads.
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Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? hey travis, talking to mark it seems that we agree on the big lift (as close to .600 as possible with PTV clearance as possible. also big duration on the intake, but keep the exhaust lower, in the .570-.580 area as well as 224 type duration to keep TQ nice and flat. the B1/T1 little cams always made NICE TQ and i believe it is the small duration on the exhaust side.
if it were me and i was willing to spin to 7K rpms i would go with a 232/226 .600/.580 (since the heads flow insane) on a 112 LSA.
if it were me and i was willing to spin to 7K rpms i would go with a 232/226 .600/.580 (since the heads flow insane) on a 112 LSA.
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Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? a little off the subject buy my 236/232 112lsa .602 is going in as we speak. should be running tonight, (crossing fingers)
should be pretty rowdy, even on my 382 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
is there a rule of thumb on how much more duration you need for added cubes???
should be pretty rowdy, even on my 382 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> .
is there a rule of thumb on how much more duration you need for added cubes???
Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? Stu my exact specs are 232/226 .595/.585 lsa 110 with 0 advance. This cam is awesome. If you choose my specs.. Send me my royalties.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> If you do not like hot start problems I would go with a 112 lsa and 4 degrees of advance built in..
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Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? Not really concerned with the hot start problems, I can play with the tuning for that. What made you decide on .010" less lift on the exhaust, clearance issues??? Where is your cam expected to peak Hp and torque. Does the 110 LSA make the torque/hp move up or down compared to the 112LSA??? Sorry for all of the questions, but I am going to be ordering a camshaft within the next week. What kind of gearing/tire combo are you planning on running. I was thinking 5.14 or 4.88's with my 28x10 Hoosiers and m6. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? Stu I am not a true drag racer.. I only run 17 inch Nittos. This is a street car. My horsepower peaked at 6400rpm. I think it was because of the heads flow. The stock heads are going back on and I expect to peak higher.. Check my sig for my heads.. I have no clearance issues.. I have valve reliefs.. This cam is awesome.. You would have to ask the true drag racers about tire sizes.. My combo has not been optimized.. My heads are not the greatest and I do not have longtubes.. So my #'s are not the greatest. I changed from 226 XE-R to 232/226 XE-R and my SOTP tell me this car is faster. I raced some people that I raced with the 226 XE-R and I put more than 2 cars more on them.. That tells me I am making more power with this combo. I am sure if I redyno'd post optimizing my tuning I would be wellover 420rwhp with the current heads.
Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? I think you should come up with your own specs and not copy me.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> You say you want to drag race and you are going to stay in the upper rpms.. I say 234/228 XE-R lsa 110 with 4 degrees of advance.. That is a killer cam.. Now do this like brutis.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? I thought Vince lost peak rwhp with the new cam.
I would go no bigger than a 230/___ cam or whatever sponsors like Thunder Racing reccomends, they have done a lot of testing and no doubt have an opinion on what is too big for a stock shortblock car.
Too much duration and you will need to flycut the pistons.
I would go no bigger than a 230/___ cam or whatever sponsors like Thunder Racing reccomends, they have done a lot of testing and no doubt have an opinion on what is too big for a stock shortblock car.
Too much duration and you will need to flycut the pistons.
Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? Actually I did not lose peak horsepower by changing cams... Where my old cam peaked at 6k the new one kept going to 6400rpm and dropped off at 6700rpm.. I looked at the dyno sheets that Norris Motorsports gave me and I can see why I lost power down low as well. Nothing to do with the cam... It was the maft settings.. The car was rich during the initial WOT hit and leaned up slowly. Also the old dyno was done in the morning and the new one was done in the evening. There was a 10 degree temp difference.. The overlay displayed where the last dyno was 13 A/F across the board and the new one dropped to 12 A/F and climbed back up to 13 by 4500 rpm. The old dyno showed that he floored it just above 2500rpm and the new dyno showed he floored it at 2800rpm.. That alone would have shown a decrease in horsepower from 3k to 4500rpm.. The new cam was trying to play catch up the whole time.. Judging by my races post the cam swap I have more horsepower. Judging by how my now 315's out back roast off idle. I think the 110 lsa is working.. I had to hit it at 3krpm to get the 275's to roast so easy.. Mikey do not think I did not notice on the dyno sheets the time you dyno'd the car and the time you sent me the email asking me if I wanted the car dyno'd.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />
<small>[ October 02, 2002, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
<small>[ October 02, 2002, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
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Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>I thought Vince lost peak rwhp with the new cam.
I would go no bigger than a 230/___ cam or whatever sponsors like Thunder Racing reccomends, they have done a lot of testing and no doubt have an opinion on what is too big for a stock shortblock car.
Too much duration and you will need to flycut the pistons.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PSJ, larger than 230 cams will gain power, but they are close to the upper bounds. The specs Vince posted are a little wild on the idle side but will make killer power. I had a 231/225 110 LSA in my car back in my 346 cu in days and it pulled all the way to 7 grand, made over 440 rwhp and 420 rwtq.
<strong>I thought Vince lost peak rwhp with the new cam.
I would go no bigger than a 230/___ cam or whatever sponsors like Thunder Racing reccomends, they have done a lot of testing and no doubt have an opinion on what is too big for a stock shortblock car.
Too much duration and you will need to flycut the pistons.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PSJ, larger than 230 cams will gain power, but they are close to the upper bounds. The specs Vince posted are a little wild on the idle side but will make killer power. I had a 231/225 110 LSA in my car back in my 346 cu in days and it pulled all the way to 7 grand, made over 440 rwhp and 420 rwtq.
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Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? Let me rephrase this, I want the maximum useable rpms out of my setup with comparable low end to say a 230/230 grind. My pistons are Wisecos, they have valve reliefs so flycutting is not an issue. My GTP's have 2.02/1.57 valves-this will help piston to valve clearance as well . I am prepared to rev to whatever rpm it takes to achieve my goal, low 11's/high 10's in a light M6 with ALOT of gear. I am definitely not a dyno junkie, if a grind loses a few peak horses as a tradeoff for more hp or torque across the board I am all for it. I want 10's NA with a 346 hyd roller , I am prepared to do just about anything to get there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? I gave you the specs of the cam that would get you there.. 234/228 XE-R lsa 110 with 4 degrees of advance.. Run 4.56 or 4.88's and you are there..
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Re: How big is too big with reverse split cams??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by gator's 99TA:
<strong>travis, the 230 intake number has made some huge power. take a look at the peak HP of the bigger boys like the 232 T2 cam. it did not make much peak over the 230 cams on 346". </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gator, you can't just sit here and compare .050" duration numbers and think you have a fair assessment. The 232 Fireball is running has 2 degrees more advertised duration than a Thunder 232 lobe and 4 degrees more duration than Vince's 232 Xe-R lobe.
To answer the question, I wouldn't go tighter than a 110-109 LSA if you don't care about idle quality but still want it to run right, and I wouldnt go more than 6 degrees split. I think you should try the 232/226 110 LSA XE-R cam Vince suggested, it will fly with those GTP heads!
<strong>travis, the 230 intake number has made some huge power. take a look at the peak HP of the bigger boys like the 232 T2 cam. it did not make much peak over the 230 cams on 346". </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gator, you can't just sit here and compare .050" duration numbers and think you have a fair assessment. The 232 Fireball is running has 2 degrees more advertised duration than a Thunder 232 lobe and 4 degrees more duration than Vince's 232 Xe-R lobe.
To answer the question, I wouldn't go tighter than a 110-109 LSA if you don't care about idle quality but still want it to run right, and I wouldnt go more than 6 degrees split. I think you should try the 232/226 110 LSA XE-R cam Vince suggested, it will fly with those GTP heads!