Vengence Vindicator .022" Piston To Valve WTF?
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,043
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From: Texas and Qatar
Looking at those cam specs (240-244), it reminded me of a test cam we ground 2-3 years ago other than the specific exhaust lobe and it was on a 110 + 0. It had a little more PtoV on the Intake and less on the Exhaust with stock pistons and heads. The 4(?) degrees of advance isn't helping the intake side of it. Needless to say we never sold it "as intended" for stock bottom end motors, we had to flycut the pistons in the car we had it in and put the stock heads back on it. After playing around with that for a few months, I put it in a 408ci not long ago and it seems to do well for that customer.
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
That is why I always preach to check PTV and degree cams that big and not just take a vendors "word" for it.
I just got the x4 put in and was told it cleared by .038. I called LG and they said they usally see .050 clearance on that cam and have a bigger one they run w/ stock heads. Now the guy that checked it did it w/ a "soft spring" now will that get the same reading as clay? And these 2 cams are just about the same w/ the x4 having some more lift and thats about it.
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Well I got slammed dunked not even last week for posting my opinion on "UNSAFE" PTV clearances on MS4 110LSA.
That is why I always preach to check PTV and degree cams that big and not just take a vendors "word" for it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=MS4+110+LSA
Nice irrefutable proof in this thread (props to the poster)
That is why I always preach to check PTV and degree cams that big and not just take a vendors "word" for it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=MS4+110+LSA
Nice irrefutable proof in this thread (props to the poster)
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by T'sBlack99Z28
I just got the x4 put in and was told it cleared by .038. I called LG and they said they usally see .050 clearance on that cam and have a bigger one they run w/ stock heads. Now the guy that checked it did it w/ a "soft spring" now will that get the same reading as clay? And these 2 cams are just about the same w/ the x4 having some more lift and thats about it.
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
I'm not ganna get in that discussion again, but those clearances are insane for the street.
11 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,537
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From: Was New Orleans, but swam to Baton Rouge
Originally Posted by brad8266
Damn man i just now read that thread and damn there is some pure ignorance in that thread. What I love is how people claim they want to learn about this stuff yet when you try to help them and explain **** they get all butthurt because their logic isnt right. They then proceed to get pissed off and sit here and tell you how wrong you are and how right they are. That was a sad thread to read and i didnt even finish it. I did make a few replies though.
I am with you on that one. After a few discussion I realized there are some people who know nothing about engines, and it is hard to try and explain reality to them.
This post is definitely interesting. I know you normally do not see many people on here who actually check and post the PtoV numbers in such detail.
Originally Posted by Sigforty
I am with you on that one. After a few discussion I realized there are some people who know nothing about engines, and it is hard to try and explain reality to them.
This post is definitely interesting. I know you normally do not see many people on here who actually check and post the PtoV numbers in such detail.
This post is definitely interesting. I know you normally do not see many people on here who actually check and post the PtoV numbers in such detail.
I measured my PTVC and posted a lengthly thread about it a few months ago.
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TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2003
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Originally Posted by DONAIMIAN
First of all, this is the wrong section. Secondly, whenever you have a problem with a vendor, its best to contact them first.
No reason to bust him in the chops... this is good info we can all use. There was nothing ugly or uncalled for in his post. I see no reason to go into vendor protection mode over it...
Props to the poster and PREDATOR-Z
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
I'm not ganna get in that discussion again, but those clearances are insane for the street.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,043
Likes: 0
From: Texas and Qatar
Originally Posted by T'sBlack99Z28
And I justed wanted to know if using a soft spring to check clearance will give the same number as clay. I'm just trying to listen and learn.
I did a back-to-back PtoV check about 4 years ago (228R cam) using clay with stock hydraulic lifters and then using a dial indicator (my preferred method). I did the clay test about 4 times to get an average measurement, which was a PITA to do anyway to get anywhere near precise. Then I used a dial indicator/adj. pushrod method and was about .020" difference each time, the clay showed more clearance for me being the lifters absorbed some of the lift...even with test springs. With my experience using clay, I could see the end results being skewed depending on the end user and the procedure used.
The dial indicator method has been the most repeatable and accurate method I've ever used. Although if I have the heads off, I also use solid lifters just to be sure. Setting the preload/lash to zero makes a huge difference in the measurements, I believe thats what a lot of people miss as it seems no one knows what lash/preload means.
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Well I got slammed dunked not even last week for posting my opinion on "UNSAFE" PTV clearances on MS4 110LSA.
That is why I always preach to check PTV and degree cams that big and not just take a vendors "word" for it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=MS4+110+LSA
Nice irrefutable proof in this thread (props to the poster)
That is why I always preach to check PTV and degree cams that big and not just take a vendors "word" for it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=MS4+110+LSA
Nice irrefutable proof in this thread (props to the poster)
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by kickassT/A
he deleted the *** hat part of the post, lol
Im sorry I just got to this thread. We are in Valdosta supporting the Florida Vs Georgia GTO Race Day...
As for the Vindicator, we have checked P/V in house on an LS6 and an 02 LS1. Both were in the low .050s on the engines we used. I am sorry you are having clearance issues. As we all know every engine/camshaft is different and has different tolerances.
We will be more than happy to send you a piston notching tool or take a full refund on the camshaft, whichever you prefer.
Again, thank you for posting your results. This should remind others to ALWAYS check P/V no matter what size the camshaft is.
As for the Vindicator, we have checked P/V in house on an LS6 and an 02 LS1. Both were in the low .050s on the engines we used. I am sorry you are having clearance issues. As we all know every engine/camshaft is different and has different tolerances.
We will be more than happy to send you a piston notching tool or take a full refund on the camshaft, whichever you prefer.
Again, thank you for posting your results. This should remind others to ALWAYS check P/V no matter what size the camshaft is.
Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
Im sorry I just got to this thread. We are in Valdosta supporting the Florida Vs Georgia GTO Race Day...
As for the Vindicator, we have checked P/V in house on an LS6 and an 02 LS1. Both were in the low .050s on the engines we used. I am sorry you are having clearance issues. As we all know every engine/camshaft is different and has different tolerances.
We will be more than happy to send you a piston notching tool or take a full refund on the camshaft, whichever you prefer.
Again, thank you for posting your results. This should remind others to ALWAYS check P/V no matter what size the camshaft is.
As for the Vindicator, we have checked P/V in house on an LS6 and an 02 LS1. Both were in the low .050s on the engines we used. I am sorry you are having clearance issues. As we all know every engine/camshaft is different and has different tolerances.
We will be more than happy to send you a piston notching tool or take a full refund on the camshaft, whichever you prefer.
Again, thank you for posting your results. This should remind others to ALWAYS check P/V no matter what size the camshaft is.
I think all cam designers/vendors should be stating PTVC on their cams on stock motors/heads, that would help in being more informative for the customer when selecting a cam. Im not pointing the finger at vengeance though since all other cam vendors dont do it either, but this thread has shined light to the subject.
yeah that would kick *** if everyone had PTV measurments for there more popular camshafts on stock motors.This way even with milled heads or thinner gaskets you could still figure out what cam you could choose.but still there would be so many variables that you would still have to check it.could get you in the ballpark though.