MARKSZ71

iTrader: (3)

u mean lpe is trying to get competive with prices dang thats a fist.

Ed Potter @ LPE

iTrader: (1)

Like I said, tell me what setup we want to see a comparison on, and I am definately up for it.

Ed Potter @ LPE

iTrader: (1)

OK, here are the flow numbers on our stage 1 Pkg. head, which is basically a stock LS1 head, stock valves & retainers, LS6 spring, 3angle valve job, hand blended valve seats. Basically our cheapest, bottom of the line head.
I E
450 272 199
500 278 208
550 280 218
600 290 224
650 296 227

Anybody else willing to put their numbers where their mouth is???

Black bird 99 T/A - say hello to Brad for me!

Ed

restoman45

iTrader: (2)

this is very interesting...i would like to see a flow comparison on the same bench w/ all the big namer's ls1 and 6 heads, stage one and two...then it put an end to the question of who makes a better head...the question is if lingenfelter is up to the task of possibly getting a bad name if their heads arent up to par to cheaper heads...

Mike Norris

iTrader: (10)

For what it is worth, we have great results with our spec hand finished CNC heads from CNC Cylinder Heads.

On an M6 car, our Stage 2 LS1's with 2.02 in and 1.57 ex and a 220/220 will make 405-410RWHP/380-385RWT with cats, exhaust and all other bolt-ons in street trim. The M6 LS6's will make 440-445RWHP and 400-410RWT with a 224/228 in a Z06 with stock cats and exhaust and in full street trim.

Shop wise for sure and do not go price unless they are proven to work. Also going with a package is as important and mixing from different vendors can have bad results at times.

Good Luck. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Mike

<small>[ October 19, 2002, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Mike Norris ]</small>

JPR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by restoman45:
<strong>this is very interesting...i would like to see a flow comparison on the same bench w/ all the big namer's ls1 and 6 heads, stage one and two...then it put an end to the question of who makes a better head...the question is if lingenfelter is up to the task of possibly getting a bad name if their heads arent up to par to cheaper heads...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If thats the case, I hope Craig @ GTP doesen't see this post or none of us will win <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> .

LS1derfull

Flow comparison test is fine but, how about dyno test on same shortblock? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Engine dyno would be easier but rear wheel would be ok too.I would love to see this comparison! <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

I would love the chance to go up against any of you guys on a dyno and compare HP/$. Someone that has an engine dyno set up for LS1's step up please. Just tell me where to send the heads. Brian @ TEA

SSBoy

I think it would be very interesting (maybe too interesting) to see the LPE heads flowed on the same bench as a MTI & GTP Head. (all heads being the same "stage" that is)

JPR

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Our new S1 design has those flow values covered buddy! Nice numbers though. I would like to see .100 to .400 if you wouldn't mind? I am willing to send in a set personally to be compared/tested BUT the heads will arrive hand delivered and taped up, tested and re-taped, no peeking unless there going to be paid for after testing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> . Compitition is what this Business is all about and it sounds like fun to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> , I'm game with 291 @ .500 with stock valves and tiny runners.

Joe.

EuG

That’s very interesting, but I think HP/TQ numbers are much more important than the flow numbers.
Remember flow bench is just static flow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . Bolt on intake, exhaust etc and things change.

The best test would be for somebody with an Engine Dyno access to swap a few diff heads on and see the difference.

The funny thing is, I’m willing to be when the smoke clears you’ll see that most of the reputable vendors here will have the numbers within +/-5-10HP on the same setup LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

VAP

YOUR WISH IS MY COMMAND !!!!

I have a Ls1 346 mule motor on a super super repeatable engine dyno (its not blue - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> )with a mild cam etc that i've been doing testing on for months - I would be more than interested in performing the tests for free - but Im in Australia <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
You ship them & I'll test them - even video record the results with a close up of the heads then of the Hp graph on the screen -
(Suggest each head porter engraves or stamps something on the front of the heads so the camera can identify etc. )
This would be no B.S cylinder head testing.

But in all honesty I think that everyone would be shocked with the results considering the baby cams that everyone is still running & the intake manifold.
All is not as it seems ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

Make it happen !

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

School of Automotive Machinists here in Houston has an engine dyno that is setup to run LS1/LS6 motors. Maybe Judson would be up for some unbiased head tests? He also has a flowbench.

-Tony

Paul J.

I think a flow test among all the major tuners would be great but all results on the intake port should be measured with an LS6 intake manifold bolted up. I also believe the exhaust port should be measured with a short pipe to simulate the effect of a header pipe. Of course, the head should be bolted to a 3.9" bore adapter and be tested to .600-.650" lift in .050" increments.

Other comparisons should include port volumes, valve size, swirl meter RPM, and cost. To be fair, an independent non-sponsor facility should also do the work.

Ratings could then be established for flow/port volume as related to cost. The only variable will be how these heads work with different cams. You would think a higher flow to volume ratio would produce more velocity and be a better port design. The next step would be to run these heads on a dyno at the same CR with the same cam (TR224 for ex). Just a few thoughts.

Paul J.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ed Potter @ LPE:

Black bird 99 T/A - say hello to Brad for me!

Ed</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Will do!

<small>[ October 20, 2002, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>

John B

iTrader: (10)

I think the idea of a direct comparison on a dyno is great, however, to remove all bias, the heads from each vendor would have to be selected from heads already delivered to a customer. The reason here is that there could be the opportunity to tweak a set of heads that don't truly represent what the actual customer is buying.

JS

iTrader: (4)

U cant use any sponsors facilities.
It would have to be done independantly by a shop that doesnt really tap into the LS1 market,Perhaps someone like SAM.

Runing the heads on a stock short block on a ENGINE dyno with a 224-570 cam could be perfect.This would show how well all the heads operate giving a 6800 redline.

Tony.PSJ,I would contact GMHTP and see if they could get SAM to do this and have ALL the sponsers send a set of there S2 heads in for a dyno test.

This would tell us who's the best
PERIOD!!!!

JS

JPR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by John B:
<strong>I think the idea of a direct comparison on a dyno is great, however, to remove all bias, the heads from each vendor would have to be selected from heads already delivered to a customer. The reason here is that there could be the opportunity to tweak a set of heads that don't truly represent what the actual customer is buying.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with your statement, BUT, there will be down time for that customer because the heads will have to be removed, packeged and shipped to the test location, the customers car would be off the road for at least 1.5 to 2 weeks minimal. I will check with my latest S1 customers and see if this is feasible, if not, then there is really no real true life comparisons that can be drawn without placing a customers car out of commission for testing. I understand how a vendor just walikng in off the street or shiping them in from there shops location would cause a problem now. Any other ideas? because I would like to do this.

Joe.

<small>[ October 20, 2002, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: JPR ]</small>

ABNRNGR (Aka Dean)

iTrader: (1)

this is a great idea, but i believe only the true head porters(2 or 3) will show up with their product for obvious reasons. This would also be good ,then we would see who backs up the talk with a good product. I hope it happens

Ed Potter @ LPE

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Joe - sounds like you've done your homework W/291 @500 ! damn good flow! I'm in for a comparison too, as we all know, anybody can claim any number they want to, but finding a way to prove it without giving away your hard earned trade secrets has always been difficult. I would definately be up for a head to head, but like JPR, I'm going to send my parts heavily escorted!
Restoman - I'm up for anything you guys want to see, but I'm not sending a set of heads anyplace, unless someone ponies up with a credit card #. I'm not worried about finding out anything except what I already know! Anyway, if nothing else we do have a few tuners in here talking to each other and complimenting each others work, rather than flaming & fighting! which is progress any way you look at it.
Ed