Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads?
10-17-2002, 09:24 PM
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Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? The CNC heads are cheaper than the GTP heads. On top of that the CNC head's intake & exhaust valves are slightly bigger. Everything is identical; ready to be bolted on w/dual coil vavle springs and titanium retainers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> . What gives? I'll put my money on the CNC heads instead <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> . -note to self, I need not spend $400 more for the GTP's-this is good!-
What do you guys think? I know everyone will be in favor for the GTP's. Those that are not speak up!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
What do you guys think? I know everyone will be in favor for the GTP's. Those that are not speak up!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
10-17-2002, 09:26 PM
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10-17-2002, 09:51 PM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? I thought the same thing when I just started investigation on the subject... then I realised that bigger valves are not necessarily a better thing... ...in fact, can be the opposite... and I bet some people will tell you CNC is exactly the case in point..
10-17-2002, 10:03 PM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? We have installed quite a few sets of CNC and GTP heads. From what we have seen, the GTPs do make more power across the entire rpm range. We typically see between 420-450rwhp with the GTP stage 2 heads and 400-420rwhp with the CNCs, all using the Thunder 224 cam. The differences in range of power is due to bolt-ons installed, compression ratio,etc.
On the flowbench, the GTPs/CNCs are fairly even up to .400 lift and then the GTPs keep climbing. The ports are also smaller on the GTPs though. This is one reason why they make so much hp/tq across the entire rpm range.
The heads make or a break an engine combination. This is defintely one area where you want the best money can buy.
Jason
On the flowbench, the GTPs/CNCs are fairly even up to .400 lift and then the GTPs keep climbing. The ports are also smaller on the GTPs though. This is one reason why they make so much hp/tq across the entire rpm range.
The heads make or a break an engine combination. This is defintely one area where you want the best money can buy.
Jason
10-18-2002, 12:50 AM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? Thanks Jason, keep the input coming!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
10-18-2002, 01:22 AM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jason99T/A:
<strong>The heads make or a break an engine combination. This is defintely one area where you want the best money can buy.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">After just recently purchasing my third set of ported LS1 heads, I can tell you that nothing is more true than what was said above.
Save $400 now, but forever wonder how much power you gave up, and kick yourself later for not doing it right the first time.
<small>[ October 18, 2002, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: jmX ]</small>
<strong>The heads make or a break an engine combination. This is defintely one area where you want the best money can buy.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">After just recently purchasing my third set of ported LS1 heads, I can tell you that nothing is more true than what was said above.
Save $400 now, but forever wonder how much power you gave up, and kick yourself later for not doing it right the first time.
<small>[ October 18, 2002, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: jmX ]</small>
10-18-2002, 02:04 AM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jason99T/A:
<strong>The heads make or a break an engine combination. This is defintely one area where you want the best money can buy.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">After just recently purchasing my third set of ported LS1 heads, I can tell you that nothing is more true than what was said above.
Save $400 now, but forever wonder how much power you gave up, and kick yourself later for not doing it right the first time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do it right do it light do it wrong do it long.Whats another 400 dollars?
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jason99T/A:
<strong>The heads make or a break an engine combination. This is defintely one area where you want the best money can buy.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">After just recently purchasing my third set of ported LS1 heads, I can tell you that nothing is more true than what was said above.
Save $400 now, but forever wonder how much power you gave up, and kick yourself later for not doing it right the first time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do it right do it light do it wrong do it long.Whats another 400 dollars?
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10-18-2002, 02:10 AM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? look into CNC heads from Total Engine Airflow they are alot better than the other (CNC) Heads and much better in price also around 1700.00 or less!Pair them with a thunder 230/224 cam and you will be very happy.
10-18-2002, 09:07 AM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? You often get what you pay for when it comes to cylinder heads. Do things right the first time and you will not have any regrets later. Most people try to skimp and save a few pennies, only to end up spending much more later to fix/replace/upgrade to the set they originally wanted in the first place.
If you must have CNC heads, I'd be somewhat inclined to go with some CNC ported LS6 heads from SDPC, those might be a nice upgrade.
-Tony
If you must have CNC heads, I'd be somewhat inclined to go with some CNC ported LS6 heads from SDPC, those might be a nice upgrade.
-Tony
10-18-2002, 02:21 PM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? I will post some flow numbers, what configuration would you like to compare to? if we're going to compare, it needs to be apples to apples,right? as far as competetive pricing, we just want to sell more heads, besides, I've been looking around at all of the other tuners that advertise here, and on other forums, and when I compare head package contents to price, we are very competetive, in some cases CHEAPER! So, let me know what you want to see, stage I, II, III, ETC.
and I will want you to post your numbers. Also, no "ringer" flow #'s, we're talking about standard package heads that anybody can buy.
Ed
and I will want you to post your numbers. Also, no "ringer" flow #'s, we're talking about standard package heads that anybody can buy.
Ed
10-18-2002, 03:26 PM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ed Potter @ LPE:
<strong>I will post some flow numbers, what configuration would you like to compare to? if we're going to compare, it needs to be apples to apples,right? as far as competetive pricing, we just want to sell more heads, besides, I've been looking around at all of the other tuners that advertise here, and on other forums, and when I compare head package contents to price, we are very competetive, in some cases CHEAPER! So, let me know what you want to see, stage I, II, III, ETC.
and I will want you to post your numbers. Also, no "ringer" flow #'s, we're talking about standard package heads that anybody can buy.
Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am 100% totally uninterested in flow numbers from your bench. Send it to a third party, have them flowed against other heads, and see what the results turn up.
Like I said, I had my heads flowed on the exact same bench so I could actually compare the numbers honestly. The information I found was pretty impressive.
If you really think your heads are that bad ***, take somebody up on the offer. Ship a set of heads to thunder racing and I'll get them to send me the sheet of my GTP's vs my ARE's vs your LPE's if they are up for it.
Hard information like this never seems to get posted because it can make or break sales of an item. I wanna see numbers we can actually USE, not numbers you got on some bench that others aren't flowing on.
<strong>I will post some flow numbers, what configuration would you like to compare to? if we're going to compare, it needs to be apples to apples,right? as far as competetive pricing, we just want to sell more heads, besides, I've been looking around at all of the other tuners that advertise here, and on other forums, and when I compare head package contents to price, we are very competetive, in some cases CHEAPER! So, let me know what you want to see, stage I, II, III, ETC.
and I will want you to post your numbers. Also, no "ringer" flow #'s, we're talking about standard package heads that anybody can buy.
Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am 100% totally uninterested in flow numbers from your bench. Send it to a third party, have them flowed against other heads, and see what the results turn up.
Like I said, I had my heads flowed on the exact same bench so I could actually compare the numbers honestly. The information I found was pretty impressive.
If you really think your heads are that bad ***, take somebody up on the offer. Ship a set of heads to thunder racing and I'll get them to send me the sheet of my GTP's vs my ARE's vs your LPE's if they are up for it.
Hard information like this never seems to get posted because it can make or break sales of an item. I wanna see numbers we can actually USE, not numbers you got on some bench that others aren't flowing on.
10-18-2002, 06:09 PM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black Sunshine/ 00SS:
<strong>JMX,
Maybe it was already posted, but just what were your findings on the ARE vs GTP results?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The ARE's weren't TOO bad, but the exhaust port flow was poor across the whole lift range, maybe 10% less than GTP's on average (at one point in the midrange lift flowing 15% less), while the intake port wasn't as bad, but still 4-5% or so behind GTP's across the board.
However, these ARE heads were over a year old. If I did have the opportunity to flow LPE heads it'd probably be best to only compare them to heads that came out this year if you were using such info to judge on what heads to buy. If you already had some ARE heads that you got a while back, it'd be a fair comparison to see what you could potentially gain by getting new heads using today's LS1 knowlege.
<strong>JMX,
Maybe it was already posted, but just what were your findings on the ARE vs GTP results?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The ARE's weren't TOO bad, but the exhaust port flow was poor across the whole lift range, maybe 10% less than GTP's on average (at one point in the midrange lift flowing 15% less), while the intake port wasn't as bad, but still 4-5% or so behind GTP's across the board.
However, these ARE heads were over a year old. If I did have the opportunity to flow LPE heads it'd probably be best to only compare them to heads that came out this year if you were using such info to judge on what heads to buy. If you already had some ARE heads that you got a while back, it'd be a fair comparison to see what you could potentially gain by getting new heads using today's LS1 knowlege.
10-18-2002, 09:03 PM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ed Potter @ LPE:
<strong>If anyone is interested, I would love the chance to prove that LPE has a superior CNC cylinder head package that is priced to compete with any other shops out there.
Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Send me a set and I'll get them flowed against my set of GTP's and ARE's. I have a graph of my ARE's vs the GTP's right here in front of me, flowed on the same bench. It'd be real interesting to get another set of heads flowed in there on the chart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like JMX said, send me a set too: I'll get the LPE heads flowed against a set of the excellent TEA Stage 2 5.3's that H82BBad mentioned.
I would love to give two friends (both SAM grads one worked at MTI the other at GTP & LPE now doing Busch/Nascar engine work) a chance to put a set of LPE heads on the flow bench and see what potential the LPE have compared to other name heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ed Potter @ LPE:
<strong>If anyone is interested, I would love the chance to prove that LPE has a superior CNC cylinder head package that is priced to compete with any other shops out there.
Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Send me a set and I'll get them flowed against my set of GTP's and ARE's. I have a graph of my ARE's vs the GTP's right here in front of me, flowed on the same bench. It'd be real interesting to get another set of heads flowed in there on the chart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like JMX said, send me a set too: I'll get the LPE heads flowed against a set of the excellent TEA Stage 2 5.3's that H82BBad mentioned.
I would love to give two friends (both SAM grads one worked at MTI the other at GTP & LPE now doing Busch/Nascar engine work) a chance to put a set of LPE heads on the flow bench and see what potential the LPE have compared to other name heads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
10-19-2002, 12:11 AM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? What Jason said <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> The GTPs are going to be the difference that sets your car apart from the average heads cam cars out there.
10-19-2002, 12:26 AM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ed Potter @ LPE:
<strong>If anyone is interested, I would love the chance to prove that LPE has a superior CNC cylinder head package that is priced to compete with any other shops out there.
Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Send me a set and I'll get them flowed against my set of GTP's and ARE's. I have a graph of my ARE's vs the GTP's right here in front of me, flowed on the same bench. It'd be real interesting to get another set of heads flowed in there on the chart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<strong>If anyone is interested, I would love the chance to prove that LPE has a superior CNC cylinder head package that is priced to compete with any other shops out there.
Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Send me a set and I'll get them flowed against my set of GTP's and ARE's. I have a graph of my ARE's vs the GTP's right here in front of me, flowed on the same bench. It'd be real interesting to get another set of heads flowed in there on the chart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
10-19-2002, 12:35 AM
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Re: Why not CNC S2 heads over GTP S2 heads? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ed Potter @ LPE:
<strong>If anyone is interested, I would love the chance to prove that LPE has a superior CNC cylinder head package that is priced to compete with any other shops out there.
Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">given that flow numbers tend to change with the bench, we should take this with a grain of salt...but "put up or shut up" so to speak. lets see some numbers! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
<strong>If anyone is interested, I would love the chance to prove that LPE has a superior CNC cylinder head package that is priced to compete with any other shops out there.
Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">given that flow numbers tend to change with the bench, we should take this with a grain of salt...but "put up or shut up" so to speak. lets see some numbers! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />