X1 or F1? Differences?
10-29-2002, 10:50 AM
#21
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Re: X1 or F1? Differences? No, that is actually great to know. I would rather that folks know that a dyno pull was made on a "happy" dyno. I will email TAMU and see how he responds. I would love to see any differences.
As I said, I just want the truth. If the cams are giving the same performance then it is important that folks know that. If they aren't that is important also.
As I said. I will post what I find out.
As I said, I just want the truth. If the cams are giving the same performance then it is important that folks know that. If they aren't that is important also.
As I said. I will post what I find out.
10-29-2002, 11:11 AM
#23
Re: X1 or F1? Differences? Just those two sets of specs between the cams you provided are within grinding tolerances of eachother. You could order an X1 and get the specs of the F1, or vice-versa. 1 deg and that tiny bit of lift has been seen on variations. My T1 (221/221) was actually a 221.6 221.6 for example. I've seen some come in at 222/222.
The point is, these cams are SO close, that you will not see any noticeable difference on the dyno or track. I've seen cam swaps from 221/221 to 224/224 show no noticeable gains or losses.
I'm just saying that your level of precision (scrutiny?) here isn't going to validate any measurable differences. Comparing various independent setups and figures from several dynojets isn't going to support anything. The ONLY way to test this would be on an engine dyno with the same identical setups, only swapping a cam.
1 deg and 0.002 lift are nothing to discuss in my opinion, flip a coin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
-Tony
The point is, these cams are SO close, that you will not see any noticeable difference on the dyno or track. I've seen cam swaps from 221/221 to 224/224 show no noticeable gains or losses.
I'm just saying that your level of precision (scrutiny?) here isn't going to validate any measurable differences. Comparing various independent setups and figures from several dynojets isn't going to support anything. The ONLY way to test this would be on an engine dyno with the same identical setups, only swapping a cam.
1 deg and 0.002 lift are nothing to discuss in my opinion, flip a coin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
-Tony
10-29-2002, 11:15 AM
#24
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Re: X1 or F1? Differences? Hey Brent - the last time my car was on Speedworks dyno was when I had the G5 cam, the stock catback, and a stock crank pulley... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
I added the Corsa Ti race system (in place of the Magnaflow Xpipe and stock Ti system), the F1 cam, and the ASP pulley and went from 403rwhp to 431rwhp on FAStech's dyno...
I added the Corsa Ti race system (in place of the Magnaflow Xpipe and stock Ti system), the F1 cam, and the ASP pulley and went from 403rwhp to 431rwhp on FAStech's dyno...
10-29-2002, 11:25 AM
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Re: X1 or F1? Differences? FAStech's dyno is also the one that I made 333hp on bone stock, and 369hp on with all the bolt-ons (except the ASP pulley). It's incredibly accurate, and produces roughly EXACT results as the Speedworks dyno...
10-29-2002, 01:03 PM
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Re: X1 or F1? Differences? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by J-Rod:
<strong>So would a general consensus of the following results be the following...
Using either the F1 or the X1 camshaft one would expect
410-420 w/ported LS1 heads
420-430 w/stock ls6 heads
430-450 w/ported ls6 heads
Would you expect the ported Ls1s to produce better than the Ls6 heads. I know they flow better on the bench, I was just wondering if someone had seen dyno numbers with ported ls1s that were higher than the 410-420 That have been posted thus far.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">matt garzoni made 445 rwhp with the F1 and ported ls1 heads.
<small>[ October 29, 2002, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: White_lightning ]</small>
<strong>So would a general consensus of the following results be the following...
Using either the F1 or the X1 camshaft one would expect
410-420 w/ported LS1 heads
420-430 w/stock ls6 heads
430-450 w/ported ls6 heads
Would you expect the ported Ls1s to produce better than the Ls6 heads. I know they flow better on the bench, I was just wondering if someone had seen dyno numbers with ported ls1s that were higher than the 410-420 That have been posted thus far.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">matt garzoni made 445 rwhp with the F1 and ported ls1 heads.
<small>[ October 29, 2002, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: White_lightning ]</small>
10-29-2002, 01:11 PM
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Re: X1 or F1? Differences? I would say this "appears" to be the averages that one could "expect" to see..
Hope I helped more than stired..
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by J-Rod:
<strong>So would a general consensus of the following results be the following...
Using either the F1 or the X1 camshaft one would expect
410-420 w/ported LS1 heads
420-430 w/stock ls6 heads
430-450 w/ported ls6 heads
Would you expect the ported Ls1s to produce better than the Ls6 heads. I know they flow better on the bench, I was just wondering if someone had seen dyno numbers with ported ls1s that were higher than the 410-420 That have been posted thus far.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Hope I helped more than stired..
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by J-Rod:
<strong>So would a general consensus of the following results be the following...
Using either the F1 or the X1 camshaft one would expect
410-420 w/ported LS1 heads
420-430 w/stock ls6 heads
430-450 w/ported ls6 heads
Would you expect the ported Ls1s to produce better than the Ls6 heads. I know they flow better on the bench, I was just wondering if someone had seen dyno numbers with ported ls1s that were higher than the 410-420 That have been posted thus far.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
10-29-2002, 01:19 PM
#28
Re: X1 or F1? Differences? You blink and this thread has blown up.. To be frank.. There have been a lot of cars that dyno 430rwhp plus.. Cartek has not used any reverse split to my knowledge and they have been to 460rwhp on a 346ci.. The X1 and F1 are great cams.. No doubt.. It does not matter what cam you have if the supporting elements do not click. We have a bad habit of generalizing things post ONE or TWO cam swaps and think that now this is suppose to happen all the time.. I can tell you.. It does not.. Not everyone that puts the F1 or X1 cam in is going to get the #'s that you see on the board. If you think of it, where are all the other peeps that purchased the X1 or F1? I do not see their #'s. Oh, they do not post.. They were posting b4 the purchase.. My point is.. Both cams are nice and will kick major buTT.. You just have to pick one and go for it.. Oh yeah, to beat up on the G5 is silly. One person might dyno 450rwhp with the G5 and put in the X1 or F1 and dyno 430rwhp.. Then what will people say..?
<small>[ October 29, 2002, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
<small>[ October 29, 2002, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
10-29-2002, 01:28 PM
#29
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Re: X1 or F1? Differences? Cartek to the best of my knowledge has not posted the specs on the cams they are running in any of their X-pkg cars which they claim to be in the 450+ RWHP range. Do you have the specs for the Ls6 Stage IIx cam so it can be compared to either one of these cams?
My question in my last post was to not say the F1 did this or the X1 did this, but to come up with some generally accepted averages. I understand that combination is everything, and that every car will dyno differently.
Again, I was simply looking for some general info. Something in the ballpark... Heck that was one of my reasons for joining htis thread to begin with. I had been wondering if the F1 worked "well" with unported LS6 heads. Perhaps better than some of the other offerings out there.
My question in my last post was to not say the F1 did this or the X1 did this, but to come up with some generally accepted averages. I understand that combination is everything, and that every car will dyno differently.
Again, I was simply looking for some general info. Something in the ballpark... Heck that was one of my reasons for joining htis thread to begin with. I had been wondering if the F1 worked "well" with unported LS6 heads. Perhaps better than some of the other offerings out there.
10-29-2002, 01:37 PM
#30
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Re: X1 or F1? Differences? I don't think ANYONE is bashing on the G5, I ran it for several months and absolutely loved it. I was out around town driving just for the sake of driving again, something I hadn't done since I bought the car new...The G5 is a GREAT cam, no bones about it...
On the flip side, the F1 is also a GREAT cam, by no means is it the "end all, be all" of cams though...it just makes a little bit more power...
Speaking of just out and driving - it's 60* here in Dallas, the sun is out, I'm out of a job, and just out driving this morning...freakin' AWESOME! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
On the flip side, the F1 is also a GREAT cam, by no means is it the "end all, be all" of cams though...it just makes a little bit more power...
Speaking of just out and driving - it's 60* here in Dallas, the sun is out, I'm out of a job, and just out driving this morning...freakin' AWESOME! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
10-30-2002, 12:37 AM
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Re: X1 or F1? Differences? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by TAMUz06:
<strong>FAStech's dyno is also the one that I made 333hp on bone stock, and 369hp on with all the bolt-ons (except the ASP pulley). It's incredibly accurate, and produces roughly EXACT results as the Speedworks dyno...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Brent,
It's funny but there seems to be a local well respected shop talking alot of **** about jims car.(or so several people have told me)
Bottom line.. he made 403 rwhp with the g5 cam on said dyno.. As i witnessed it.
cam was pulled and the f1 went in..
same dyno
same day
the f1 made 420 rwhp.
hmmmm
so.. lets say that the dyno is off
that means the G5 made less power too.
The G5 is a good cam.. but isnt it funny that after all the smack talking that g5 owners had about the f1 cam, that LGM is developing a reverse duration cam?
I heard storys that Lou wasnt happy with TAMU's comparison because it wasnt on his dyno.. Bottom line.. it DOESNT matter if the dyno IS off ( which it wasnt) It showed a 17 rwhp gain going to the f1.
and jims car IS faster based on the BIGGER hole he now stomps in my *** every time we race.
<small>[ October 29, 2002, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: White_lightning ]</small>
<strong>FAStech's dyno is also the one that I made 333hp on bone stock, and 369hp on with all the bolt-ons (except the ASP pulley). It's incredibly accurate, and produces roughly EXACT results as the Speedworks dyno...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Brent,
It's funny but there seems to be a local well respected shop talking alot of **** about jims car.(or so several people have told me)
Bottom line.. he made 403 rwhp with the g5 cam on said dyno.. As i witnessed it.
cam was pulled and the f1 went in..
same dyno
same day
the f1 made 420 rwhp.
hmmmm
so.. lets say that the dyno is off
that means the G5 made less power too.
The G5 is a good cam.. but isnt it funny that after all the smack talking that g5 owners had about the f1 cam, that LGM is developing a reverse duration cam?
I heard storys that Lou wasnt happy with TAMU's comparison because it wasnt on his dyno.. Bottom line.. it DOESNT matter if the dyno IS off ( which it wasnt) It showed a 17 rwhp gain going to the f1.
and jims car IS faster based on the BIGGER hole he now stomps in my *** every time we race.
<small>[ October 29, 2002, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: White_lightning ]</small>
10-30-2002, 12:56 AM
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Re: X1 or F1? Differences? Great! No need to defend the G5 cam.. and I have no idea why it was even brought into the discusion.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Was that from the left field or what?
As far as different dynos, different days, etc.. My car with a stock cam on its "BEST DAY" at speedworks dynoed 380RWHP..
Now - @ SpeedTeck on its "BEST DAY" dynoed 393RWHP..it also dynoed lower..
NO- I AM NOT CONCLUDING THAT THIER DYNO IS WRONG!
I am simply saying that - I was told (right or wrong) that Tamu's car dynoed lower @ another shop - hence I asked the person that really gives a squat about the particulars (and the content of this thread) between these two cams to contact Tamu to get the story directly from him - IF - there is a story to be told..
As far as different dynos, different days, etc.. My car with a stock cam on its "BEST DAY" at speedworks dynoed 380RWHP..
Now - @ SpeedTeck on its "BEST DAY" dynoed 393RWHP..it also dynoed lower..
NO- I AM NOT CONCLUDING THAT THIER DYNO IS WRONG!
I am simply saying that - I was told (right or wrong) that Tamu's car dynoed lower @ another shop - hence I asked the person that really gives a squat about the particulars (and the content of this thread) between these two cams to contact Tamu to get the story directly from him - IF - there is a story to be told..
10-30-2002, 12:59 AM
#34
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Re: X1 or F1? Differences? So would a general consensus of the following results be the following...
Using either the F1 or the X1 camshaft one would expect
410-420 w/ported LS1 heads
420-430 w/stock ls6 heads
430-450 w/ported ls6 heads
Would you expect the ported Ls1s to produce better than the Ls6 heads. I know they flow better on the bench, I was just wondering if someone had seen dyno numbers with ported ls1s that were higher than the 410-420 That have been posted thus far.
Using either the F1 or the X1 camshaft one would expect
410-420 w/ported LS1 heads
420-430 w/stock ls6 heads
430-450 w/ported ls6 heads
Would you expect the ported Ls1s to produce better than the Ls6 heads. I know they flow better on the bench, I was just wondering if someone had seen dyno numbers with ported ls1s that were higher than the 410-420 That have been posted thus far.
10-30-2002, 07:17 AM
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Re: X1 or F1? Differences? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by beardWS6:
<strong>Dyno kings don`t always make fast cars! Mine is the car that pulled 401rwhp, 361rwtq. Jayson is going to tune somemore on mine. We are still a ways off on my tuning. Just remember, I have read of cars with less horsepower than mine run high 10`s. I love the X1 cam, has a nice sound, runs great. I will tell you this, when I hit second-then 3rd she is pulling like a Maniac! Feels like she just goes crazy with power. I left power on the table, sorta rushed Jayson trying to get my car out. I won`t do that again. I will post my new numbers when he gets finished tuning, have to get the tranny rebuilt. Burnt 3-4 gear first time I sprayed off the line
I learned a lesson with that! It`s just like flow numbers for heads. The higher numbers doesn`t mean the best heads. Like John and Tony say, sheets with numbers don`t win races! I`m new with all this, but I`m learning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was wondering about your dyno numbers/head flow numbers for a S2 package.
Particularly why the torque is so low. Is it because of the cooked tranny? I am sure Jayson and the guys will get the car exactly where you want it but I was initially confused about your dyno and (relatively) lower flow numbers. Now that you mention the cooked tranny it does make alot more sense to me.
Good luck with it! I am sure you will get it figured out! Peak flow numbers/dyno numbers aren't everything anyways, it is area under the curve and maintaining RWHP after HP peak that wins races <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Chris
<small>[ October 30, 2002, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
<strong>Dyno kings don`t always make fast cars! Mine is the car that pulled 401rwhp, 361rwtq. Jayson is going to tune somemore on mine. We are still a ways off on my tuning. Just remember, I have read of cars with less horsepower than mine run high 10`s. I love the X1 cam, has a nice sound, runs great. I will tell you this, when I hit second-then 3rd she is pulling like a Maniac! Feels like she just goes crazy with power. I left power on the table, sorta rushed Jayson trying to get my car out. I won`t do that again. I will post my new numbers when he gets finished tuning, have to get the tranny rebuilt. Burnt 3-4 gear first time I sprayed off the line
I learned a lesson with that! It`s just like flow numbers for heads. The higher numbers doesn`t mean the best heads. Like John and Tony say, sheets with numbers don`t win races! I`m new with all this, but I`m learning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was wondering about your dyno numbers/head flow numbers for a S2 package. Particularly why the torque is so low. Is it because of the cooked tranny? I am sure Jayson and the guys will get the car exactly where you want it but I was initially confused about your dyno and (relatively) lower flow numbers. Now that you mention the cooked tranny it does make alot more sense to me.
Good luck with it! I am sure you will get it figured out! Peak flow numbers/dyno numbers aren't everything anyways, it is area under the curve and maintaining RWHP after HP peak that wins races <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Chris
<small>[ October 30, 2002, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>