torchedZ

F1: 230/226 .591/.569 112
X1: 230/227 .591/.571 112

Okay I keep hearing about the power the F1 has been putting out lately, but I don't hear much about the X1. Are there any major differences between the F1 and X1, besides the numbers I posted? TAMU got 430rwhp with the F1 on stock LS6 heads. Is that comparable to the numbers an X1 would put out?

I've narrowed my decision down to these two. The cam I get will pair up with stock LS6 heads for about 6 months, then I'll get some stg.2 GTP or MTI heads. Any suggestions?? Thanks

bigSS

Out of curiosity why did you eliminate the TR 230/224 ???

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

There are quite a few X1 cammed cars out there making 440+ rwhp with stage 2 LS1 heads. The owner of MTI has an X1 in his 422ci vette and it pulls 495 rwhp thru the Corsa catback and idles/drives like stock.

The X1 and F1 are basically the same cam, should be no differences in performance.

-Tony

J-Rod

Shouldn't be... But looks like there may be.

I haven't seen what an X1 makes. But TAMU and KUMAR are both making wicked power with the F1 and stock LS6 heads. I mean C'mon 430RWHP on stock heads? I see plenty of guys with ported heads and a camshaft not making those numbers.

Has anyone done a X1 on a set of stock LS6 heads. If so, I'd like to see what the HP differences are. On paper they look like the same camshaft (almost) but, what are the ramps like, etc...

Most of the posts regarding the X1 appear to be around 420-430 with ported heads. I have seen some coming in around 440.

Just curious...

<small>[ October 25, 2002, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: J-Rod ]</small>

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Those are far exceptions, not a rule. There is no "magical" camshaft. Do you think the vendor of the F1 will guarantee 430 rwhp with stock LS6 heads? No. Besides, the LS6 heads and LS6 intake flow better than some of the early years ported LS1 heads with the LS1 intake, and we were making over 400 rwhp 4 years ago with 221/221 cams.

Sometimes you have to step back from hype and focus on common sense. The cams are identical enough to be within grinding tolerances of eachother.

-Tony

Raughammer

I going to be picking up the X1 today for my LS6 heads.
Hoping for some of that sweet success this cam has given other folks.
Plus it seems to REALLY like these LS6 heads.

Difference in performance of the two cams should be negligible.

John

torchedZ

BigSS: I haven't really given the the TR230 much thought. My choices were narrowed because I know where to get the X1 and F1 used at a nice price. If the TR230 is worth it, I would buy a new one though. How has that cam performed on stock LS6 heads? Does it make more power than the F1 or X1?

Raughammer: Let us know how the X1 performs.

J-Rod

Tony, I completely agree on paper looking at the advertised specs they should be really close.

My only point is, are they? What are the ramps like, etc...

My only point that I was trying to make was that a Z06 with bolt ons

kumar75150:2002 Electron Blue/Mod Red Z06
411rwhp, 386rwtq untuned - Borla Stinger, TPIS long tubes w/o cats, Vortex Rammer, Fastech F1 Cam

tamuz06 - Vortex air box/filter | Air bridge | Shaner S2 ported throttle body | ASP crank pulley | SVO 30# injectors | FLP headers (no cats) | Corsa Ti race exhaust | LS1 Edit 430rwhp / 389rwtq

Ok, not that I am out to bash MTI but look in this thread. Stage II heads and an X1 cam, so we have ported heads and an X1.

The first pull got us RWHP 393.3 RWTQ 360.2
Second pull got us RWHP 401.0 RWTQ 361.2

All this with a A4,Vig 3200, 12-Bolt with 3.73, on 17x11 wheels!

https://ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ulti...c;f=1;t=008389

so, that may not be fair comparing an auto w/o header vs a 6spd.

but then there is this one.
1999 SS Black #0990, 6-speed, Eibach pro kit, Fikse FM10's, Moser 9in, MTI stage 2 LS6 heads, X1 cam, more mods than I can list.
RWHP:418.1
RWTQ:397.7
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ulti...c;f=1;t=007919

So perhaps that is a bit closer... But still down by comparison.

My only point is that ported heads and that camshaft are making less than just the F1 cam alone... I don't know why, but those are just the number being posted.

I'd like to know why though...

torchedZ

Yea, What J-Rod said <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Raughammer

Greeeat....dyno racing.

There are so many variables that...ah, whats the point.

Different dynos, different days, different cars...comparing dyno numbers fropm different cars is just a lesson in futility.

Tuning, mods, drivetrain loses..etc. ALL make differences.

The differences between the cams is minimal and should not be exacerbated by "dyno-speculation".

Buy whichever one is cheaper and go run.

I picked my X1 on a 112 up just a few mins ago. It goes in the car tonight.

John

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Come on J-Rod, I know you are better than a dyno sheet racer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

That second car you listed has a Ford 9" rearend, those are known to pull about 18 "dyno" hp from a stock rear. You also didn't list guys like poolfanatic that pulled 445 with the X1.

Just look at the cams, not dynos, not different combos in different cars... too many variables.

To be honest, I don't even notice differences between cams that are much different than these two. 1 degree and that hair of lift won't make any difference.

-Tony

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

hell if you have a company like comp cams then both cams WILL be the same since the grinding variance allow something as small as the one duration of exhaust. LOL - this post is just about a joke. when you put the two "different" cams on a cam doctor, you will see! esp considering they are most likely on the same lobes. LOL

and as for ET, NO difference.

beardWS6

iTrader: (1)

Dyno kings don`t always make fast cars! Mine is the car that pulled 401rwhp, 361rwtq. Jayson is going to tune somemore on mine. We are still a ways off on my tuning. Just remember, I have read of cars with less horsepower than mine run high 10`s. I love the X1 cam, has a nice sound, runs great. I will tell you this, when I hit second-then 3rd she is pulling like a Maniac! Feels like she just goes crazy with power. I left power on the table, sorta rushed Jayson trying to get my car out. I won`t do that again. I will post my new numbers when he gets finished tuning, have to get the tranny rebuilt. Burnt 3-4 gear first time I sprayed off the line I learned a lesson with that! It`s just like flow numbers for heads. The higher numbers doesn`t mean the best heads. Like John and Tony say, sheets with numbers don`t win races! I`m new with all this, but I`m learning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

poolfanatic

iTrader: (32)

All I can say is that I had the first X1 installed and coudln't be happier. 445 rwhp/414 rwtq with Stage II LS6 heads.

The car flat out hauls. I don't think you can go wrong with either, but the X1 has my vote.

Colonel

They have the same ramp rates right? And the X1 has ever so slightly more exhaust duration and lift, right? So, if we're nit picking I'd say the performance edge goes ever so slightly towards the X1 while the drivability edge goes ever so slightly towards the F1.

For all practical purposes they're the same cam.

LS1derfull

This is LS1Tech, i want you hardcore guys to sit down and learn what cam specs are important for comparisons, its not that hard: Cam duration at .006"lifter rise, .050" lifter rise, duration at .200", and lobe lift at TDC with cam intake centerline at 106* and 110*. You need to compare these specs to get a real view of cams profile.Advantages from one cam to another lie in these numbers and it is important to understand the effects these specs have on engine. Cylinder head flow is directly used with this cam info for plotting proper setup.We shouldnt leave the mystery of cam grinds to the grinders, because then you are at the mercy of salesmen instead of making educated decisions ourselves

2001 LS1 SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Raughammer:
<strong>I going to be picking up the X1 today for my LS6 heads.
Hoping for some of that sweet success this cam has given other folks.
Plus it seems to REALLY like these LS6 heads.

Difference in performance of the two cams should be negligible.

John</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just put mine on with S2 LS1 heads, hoping for similar results, I'm hoping to only be 10 to 15 RWHP lower than LS6 heads, so maybe 425 or 430 RW (fingers crossed).

-Dave

J-Rod

Tony, Raughhammer. I am not trying to dyno sheet race here. Please don't misunderstand my question. I think it is very impressive that folks with only a camshaft are making power like they are with the F1.

I know that cams look almost alike on paper. I was simply trying to find out if they actually are. I mean if they are both made by Comp I can call a guy I know at Comp and have him pull the cards on each of them and tell me exactly what is up with each them.

My point was to look at a H/C combo making less power than a cam only car. But then poolfanatic shows up with the same package making 30HP more than another car with the same package. In fact it is only 5hp off what Cartek is claiming. Those are very impressive numbers.

Look I don't care about dyno queens. I don't care about people who put in Aluminum driveshafts and aluminum flywheels to post big numbers, only to fall on their face at the track. All I am looking for is what does and doesn't make power. I would love to see what an X1 cam only in a z06 would do in comparison to an F1.

I think we all just want to find what works. If some combinations work better than others. Just like heads. Which head porters post big numbers, but which ones make more power. Also, just like has been stated who makes the good passes at the track.

But I think it is important to recognize that even that is skewed by driver ability. My car only makes 358RWHP, yet it has gone an 11.9333. I know folks with more HP who don't run anywhere close to that (in the same vehicle). Does that mean the dyno was wrong. No, it just means that I was able to get it down on the track better than they did.

I think it is important to get all the facts, look at all the data, and then make an intelligent and informed decision. Thats all I am trying to do, not play internent dyno racer...

J-Rod

Ok, let me ask this question then. How much power difference would you expect to see from stage II LS1 heads vs the stock LS6 heads? An then what would you expect to see from a set of ported LS6s vs a set of stockers.

Just from what I am seeing in this thread using an X1 or F1 with stock LS6 heads appears to be about the same power as a set of ported LS1s, and about 15HP for a set of ported LS6 heads over stock LS6s.

Would folks out there agree that this would be what you would expect to see, or are those numbers skewed a bit?

Is there anyone else with X1 or F1 data who can chime in with dyno numbers and 1/4 mile times?

bparker

one other thing to note (if I was informed correctly) was that the X1 has +4 of timing ground into it..

and I don’t know if that is true with the F1..

Just a thought..

on another note - not "trying" to start crap - but I "heard" that Tamu's car dynoed lower on another dyno at another location.. I dont know the details - thus email him to get the skinny behind it if you want to get an "average" of what his car put out with the F1..