G5 or TR224 cam?
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Everyone,
I am picking up my most excellent set of TEA 5.3L heads with Comp 987 dual-springs, ferra 202/155 valves, etc. at the end of this week, and I've got my cam choice narrowed down to either the G5 or the TR224, both on a 112.
The specs on the TR224 are 224/224 .561/.561 @ 112 and from what I can gather from reading here, the G5 is around 224/230 .58x/.57x on a 112.
What does everyone think the differences between these cams will be, all other things in the car being equal? My 99 vette is a 6-speed w/ 3.73 gears. I rarely see track time (but it's due a little, so it'll get some from time to time) and I mostly drive it for enjoyment on the street. I don't want to shift at 6800 RPM's to get everything out of the car. It'd be nice to have it pull to 6500-6600 RPM and me shift a little before then.
Low-end and/or a consistent torque curve accross the power band is just as important, if not moreso than peak HP#'s to me.
Any comments from either side?
Thanks!!
<small>[ October 29, 2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: AllCammedUp ]</small>
I am picking up my most excellent set of TEA 5.3L heads with Comp 987 dual-springs, ferra 202/155 valves, etc. at the end of this week, and I've got my cam choice narrowed down to either the G5 or the TR224, both on a 112.
The specs on the TR224 are 224/224 .561/.561 @ 112 and from what I can gather from reading here, the G5 is around 224/230 .58x/.57x on a 112.
What does everyone think the differences between these cams will be, all other things in the car being equal? My 99 vette is a 6-speed w/ 3.73 gears. I rarely see track time (but it's due a little, so it'll get some from time to time) and I mostly drive it for enjoyment on the street. I don't want to shift at 6800 RPM's to get everything out of the car. It'd be nice to have it pull to 6500-6600 RPM and me shift a little before then.
Low-end and/or a consistent torque curve accross the power band is just as important, if not moreso than peak HP#'s to me.
Any comments from either side?
Thanks!!
<small>[ October 29, 2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: AllCammedUp ]</small>
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from what i hear, and my own opinion, go with the conservative thunder 224. Silimlar power, you can shift where you mentioned, around 6600 is probally the highest, you could shift around 6500 no prob and still have good results and it will be alittle more tamer from what i hear.
correct me if im wrong.
correct me if im wrong.
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I would favor the TR-224 probably.
Do you know if the G5 is a Comp Cams grind?
[SPECULATION MODE ON]
If so it might be a 224 .581 XE-R intake lobe with a 230 .573 XE exhaust lobe.
If the G5 is a Comp grind the G5 might have a very slight edge on the intake side of things. The XE-R lobe as a little more lift etc. I've read the XE-R might have a max of 1 to 2 percent more area under the curve.
On the exhaust side the TR-224 would have more aggresive ramp but less lift and less duration. Since the Tr-224 is one of the cams power is judged by, I think this implies the TR-224 isn't hurting for more exhaust flow. In other words TR-224 is well matched.
On the exhaust side of the G5 has a slower ramp the XE than the TR-224's but the G5 has a lot more duration. The G5 probably has more exhaust flow but the exhaust valves aren't opened as quick or shut as quick. G5 may attempt some sort of tuning trick by timing the intake and exhaust pluses so they will overlap and enhance one another with the difference lobes and durations etc. Based on the dyno results I've seen seems to work about as well as the TR-224 or the C2 but not quite as well.
NA the TR-224 isn't hurting for better exhaust so I don't see how the G5 is really any better with more exhaust flow. I favor the smallest and simplist cam that gets the job done. Seems like that's the TR-224.
If spray is a question, I'd think the extra exhaust duration of the G5 might help.
If stock manifolds are being used, I'd favor the G5 due to the extra exhaust duration.
[SPECULATION MODE OFF]
Do you know if the G5 is a Comp Cams grind?
[SPECULATION MODE ON]
If so it might be a 224 .581 XE-R intake lobe with a 230 .573 XE exhaust lobe.
If the G5 is a Comp grind the G5 might have a very slight edge on the intake side of things. The XE-R lobe as a little more lift etc. I've read the XE-R might have a max of 1 to 2 percent more area under the curve.
On the exhaust side the TR-224 would have more aggresive ramp but less lift and less duration. Since the Tr-224 is one of the cams power is judged by, I think this implies the TR-224 isn't hurting for more exhaust flow. In other words TR-224 is well matched.
On the exhaust side of the G5 has a slower ramp the XE than the TR-224's but the G5 has a lot more duration. The G5 probably has more exhaust flow but the exhaust valves aren't opened as quick or shut as quick. G5 may attempt some sort of tuning trick by timing the intake and exhaust pluses so they will overlap and enhance one another with the difference lobes and durations etc. Based on the dyno results I've seen seems to work about as well as the TR-224 or the C2 but not quite as well.
NA the TR-224 isn't hurting for better exhaust so I don't see how the G5 is really any better with more exhaust flow. I favor the smallest and simplist cam that gets the job done. Seems like that's the TR-224.
If spray is a question, I'd think the extra exhaust duration of the G5 might help.
If stock manifolds are being used, I'd favor the G5 due to the extra exhaust duration.
[SPECULATION MODE OFF]
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>I would favor the TR-224 probably.
Do you know if the G5 is a Comp Cams grind?
[SPECULATION MODE ON][SPECULATION MODE OFF]</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is a Comp grind and your speculation mode is VERY keen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> , especially on the intake/exhaust grinds. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<strong>I would favor the TR-224 probably.
Do you know if the G5 is a Comp Cams grind?
[SPECULATION MODE ON][SPECULATION MODE OFF]</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is a Comp grind and your speculation mode is VERY keen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> , especially on the intake/exhaust grinds. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AllCammedUp:
<strong>Everyone,
I am picking up my most excellent set of TEA 5.3L heads with Comp 987 dual-springs, ferra 202/155 valves, etc. at the end of this week, and I've got my cam choice narrowed down to either the G5 or the TR224, both on a 112.
The specs on the TR224 are 224/224 .561/.561 @ 112 and from what I can gather from reading here, the G5 is around 224/230 .58x/.57x on a 112.
What does everyone think the differences between these cams will be, all other things in the car being equal? My 99 vette is a 6-speed w/ 3.73 gears. I rarely see track time (but it's due a little, so it'll get some from time to time) and I mostly drive it for enjoyment on the street. I don't want to shift at 6800 RPM's to get everything out of the car. It'd be nice to have it pull to 6500-6600 RPM and me shift a little before then.
Low-end and/or a consistent torque curve accross the power band is just as important, if not moreso than peak HP#'s to me.
Any comments from either side?
Thanks!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can't speek for the TR224, but I think you will get more out of the G5 cam. BUT the G5 cam has some issues. WIth the AC or Heat on, after you run it hard, it will DIE at a stop. All other times, it idles nice at 850rpms. See my dynograph for where peak power is. I shift at about 6600rpms. For the amount of mods I have, the numbers speak for themselves .. I think with a ported TB and better catback, I'd be looking at 400rwhp ..
I got the programming for the G5 from LG, if I had to do it again, I would let a 3rd party program it. I am thinking about doing this anyways as I am NOT happy with the tune from LG.
The TR will probably give you a better chance at emissions, and I have seen it make very good power (from posts).
Just my 2 cents.
Crowley
<strong>Everyone,
I am picking up my most excellent set of TEA 5.3L heads with Comp 987 dual-springs, ferra 202/155 valves, etc. at the end of this week, and I've got my cam choice narrowed down to either the G5 or the TR224, both on a 112.
The specs on the TR224 are 224/224 .561/.561 @ 112 and from what I can gather from reading here, the G5 is around 224/230 .58x/.57x on a 112.
What does everyone think the differences between these cams will be, all other things in the car being equal? My 99 vette is a 6-speed w/ 3.73 gears. I rarely see track time (but it's due a little, so it'll get some from time to time) and I mostly drive it for enjoyment on the street. I don't want to shift at 6800 RPM's to get everything out of the car. It'd be nice to have it pull to 6500-6600 RPM and me shift a little before then.
Low-end and/or a consistent torque curve accross the power band is just as important, if not moreso than peak HP#'s to me.
Any comments from either side?
Thanks!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can't speek for the TR224, but I think you will get more out of the G5 cam. BUT the G5 cam has some issues. WIth the AC or Heat on, after you run it hard, it will DIE at a stop. All other times, it idles nice at 850rpms. See my dynograph for where peak power is. I shift at about 6600rpms. For the amount of mods I have, the numbers speak for themselves .. I think with a ported TB and better catback, I'd be looking at 400rwhp ..
I got the programming for the G5 from LG, if I had to do it again, I would let a 3rd party program it. I am thinking about doing this anyways as I am NOT happy with the tune from LG.
The TR will probably give you a better chance at emissions, and I have seen it make very good power (from posts).
Just my 2 cents.
Crowley
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Crowley:
Can't speek for the TR224, but I think you will get more out of the G5 cam. BUT the G5 cam has some issues. WIth the AC or Heat on, after you run it hard, it will DIE at a stop. All other times, it idles nice at 850rpms. See my dynograph for where peak power is. I shift at about 6600rpms. For the amount of mods I have, the numbers speak for themselves .. I think with a ported TB and better catback, I'd be looking at 400rwhp ..
I got the programming for the G5 from LG, if I had to do it again, I would let a 3rd party program it. I am thinking about doing this anyways as I am NOT happy with the tune from LG.
The TR will probably give you a better chance at emissions, and I have seen it make very good power (from posts).
Just my 2 cents.
Crowley</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The issues you mention about the G5 have to do more with your tuning than the cam itself. I do not have any issues with the cam whatsoever in my daily driver. Chris Marsh at AMS tuned my computer.
Made 395 rwhp with stock heads through a 12 bolt with 4.11s.
<small>[ October 31, 2002, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: CamM ]</small>
Can't speek for the TR224, but I think you will get more out of the G5 cam. BUT the G5 cam has some issues. WIth the AC or Heat on, after you run it hard, it will DIE at a stop. All other times, it idles nice at 850rpms. See my dynograph for where peak power is. I shift at about 6600rpms. For the amount of mods I have, the numbers speak for themselves .. I think with a ported TB and better catback, I'd be looking at 400rwhp ..
I got the programming for the G5 from LG, if I had to do it again, I would let a 3rd party program it. I am thinking about doing this anyways as I am NOT happy with the tune from LG.
The TR will probably give you a better chance at emissions, and I have seen it make very good power (from posts).
Just my 2 cents.
Crowley</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The issues you mention about the G5 have to do more with your tuning than the cam itself. I do not have any issues with the cam whatsoever in my daily driver. Chris Marsh at AMS tuned my computer.
Made 395 rwhp with stock heads through a 12 bolt with 4.11s.
<small>[ October 31, 2002, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: CamM ]</small>
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99 Black Bird T/A: just as NastyC5 mentions, I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding the specs and the lobe grinds. This car doesn't, nor will it have, spray on it, and I am running a set of FLP long tubes.
The exhaust side of the cams is where I really see the difference in these two profiles coming into light. Like you say, from the intake side, they are pretty evenly matched. The XE-R lobes and the addition lift over the TR224 might give it a slight edge, but not much more than that, IMHO. In other words, the TR224 ought to hang right w/ it on the intake side of the house, I would think.
Given the long exhaust duration of the G5, and the higher lift, as well, what advantage does that bring to the table in comparison to the TR224's profile?
Crowley: what does the G5 feel like in your car? Is the low-end and mid-range torque good? Do you have ported heads or are you running stockers? From your mod list, you don't list heads. If not, those are killer #'s for not having heads.
From the dyno sheets I've seen, the G5 is very respectable, but so is the TR224. I'm a winner with either cam, I do believe, but I'm trying to get the most info I possibly can before I slap either guy in my LS1.
<small>[ October 31, 2002, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: AllCammedUp ]</small>
The exhaust side of the cams is where I really see the difference in these two profiles coming into light. Like you say, from the intake side, they are pretty evenly matched. The XE-R lobes and the addition lift over the TR224 might give it a slight edge, but not much more than that, IMHO. In other words, the TR224 ought to hang right w/ it on the intake side of the house, I would think.
Given the long exhaust duration of the G5, and the higher lift, as well, what advantage does that bring to the table in comparison to the TR224's profile?
Crowley: what does the G5 feel like in your car? Is the low-end and mid-range torque good? Do you have ported heads or are you running stockers? From your mod list, you don't list heads. If not, those are killer #'s for not having heads.
From the dyno sheets I've seen, the G5 is very respectable, but so is the TR224. I'm a winner with either cam, I do believe, but I'm trying to get the most info I possibly can before I slap either guy in my LS1.
<small>[ October 31, 2002, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: AllCammedUp ]</small>
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AllCammedUp:
Here is my dyno sheet with the G5.
http://www.geocities.com/z28cm/DynoG5.jpg
You have to cut and paste the link and put a space after it and it will work.
Also, with the G5 and the mods in my sig, on a conservative run I ran a 11.97 @ 115.6 MPH with a 1.77 60ft.
But honestly you can't go wrong with either cam.
Here is my dyno sheet with the G5.
http://www.geocities.com/z28cm/DynoG5.jpg
You have to cut and paste the link and put a space after it and it will work.
Also, with the G5 and the mods in my sig, on a conservative run I ran a 11.97 @ 115.6 MPH with a 1.77 60ft.
But honestly you can't go wrong with either cam.
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love my G5 sounds mean as all hell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
412 rwhp
430 gears
ford 9" rear end
no tune running VERY LEAN due to some tune issues <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
and at that time i had the cam in the car for about 20 miles...
412 rwhp
430 gears
ford 9" rear end
no tune running VERY LEAN due to some tune issues <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
and at that time i had the cam in the car for about 20 miles...
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AllCammedUp:
<strong>99 Black Bird T/A
Crowley: what does the G5 feel like in your car? Is the low-end and mid-range torque good? Do you have ported heads or are you running stockers? From your mod list, you don't list heads. If not, those are killer #'s for not having heads.
From the dyno sheets I've seen, the G5 is very respectable, but so is the TR224. I'm a winner with either cam, I do believe, but I'm trying to get the most info I possibly can before I slap either guy in my LS1.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My heads are stock. NO ported TB or MAF, stock cat back system. I think the tune could be better as well. The G5 feels good in the car, and it will pull until I shift. Low and midrange is good with the G5 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Powerwise, I am very happy!!
Crowley
<strong>99 Black Bird T/A
Crowley: what does the G5 feel like in your car? Is the low-end and mid-range torque good? Do you have ported heads or are you running stockers? From your mod list, you don't list heads. If not, those are killer #'s for not having heads.
From the dyno sheets I've seen, the G5 is very respectable, but so is the TR224. I'm a winner with either cam, I do believe, but I'm trying to get the most info I possibly can before I slap either guy in my LS1.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My heads are stock. NO ported TB or MAF, stock cat back system. I think the tune could be better as well. The G5 feels good in the car, and it will pull until I shift. Low and midrange is good with the G5 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Powerwise, I am very happy!!
Crowley
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Crowley...kill numbers <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AllCammedUp:
<strong>
Given the long exhaust duration of the G5, and the higher lift, as well, what advantage does that bring to the table in comparison to the TR224's profile?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From seeing Crowley's results the G5's pulse/overlap/tuning may be worth a few ponies over the TR-224 in a set up well matched for the G5. If G5 uses a tuning effect, the G5 might be more sensitive to header lenght etc than the TR-224.
What does Lou say about the tuning effect? I seem to recall something about that from a while back.
What's the going price for a G5 cam these days?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AllCammedUp:
<strong>
Given the long exhaust duration of the G5, and the higher lift, as well, what advantage does that bring to the table in comparison to the TR224's profile?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">From seeing Crowley's results the G5's pulse/overlap/tuning may be worth a few ponies over the TR-224 in a set up well matched for the G5. If G5 uses a tuning effect, the G5 might be more sensitive to header lenght etc than the TR-224.
What does Lou say about the tuning effect? I seem to recall something about that from a while back.
What's the going price for a G5 cam these days?
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong>BTW
Anyone have dyno results handy of the G5 we can look at?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The link under my sig should work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
<strong>BTW
Anyone have dyno results handy of the G5 we can look at?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The link under my sig should work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
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I've had BOTH in my car. They make very similiar power, but if this is YOUR DAILY DRIVER get the TR224. I promise u the G5 will shake your filling loose compared to the TR. I have no regrets switching from one to the other. Beleive me sitting in traffic with the mirror vibrating violently is no fun at all. <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" /> This is my experience with the cams. Oh yeah, my car is an auto if that helps. Bear
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Now we've got someone who has had both in their car! Killer!!
Bear, you say they both make very similar power, and I see you are now running the TR cam... what was the impetus to switch off of the G5? Was it the shaking and demeanor of the cam you mentioned that was the deciding factor, or was it the quest for more power? Which of these, in your opinion, was the stronger of the two?
Can you elaborate on what the bottom-end/midrange is like with both cams? Which cam 'hit' the hardest? Did you get a dyno graph of each cam in your car?
Thanks!
Bear, you say they both make very similar power, and I see you are now running the TR cam... what was the impetus to switch off of the G5? Was it the shaking and demeanor of the cam you mentioned that was the deciding factor, or was it the quest for more power? Which of these, in your opinion, was the stronger of the two?
Can you elaborate on what the bottom-end/midrange is like with both cams? Which cam 'hit' the hardest? Did you get a dyno graph of each cam in your car?
Thanks!
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> From seeing Crowley's results the G5's pulse/overlap/tuning may be worth a few ponies over the TR-224 in a set up well matched for the G5. If G5 uses a tuning effect, the G5 might be more sensitive to header lenght etc than the TR-224. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Crowley's results cannot be disputed. It looks like for his setup, the cam performs well. I think it is best paired w/ the LGM headers, from what I have read.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What does Lou say about the tuning effect? I seem to recall something about that from a while back.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not really sure. I've never heard Lou comment one way or the other on that topic. Was he talking about in the past, around the time the cam was introduced? I don't know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What's the going price for a G5 cam these days? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think they can be had on the forums for around $400 used. *I think* they are around $495 new, if I'm not mistaken. If I am wrong, someone please correct me there, but I'm quoting what I see on his website.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What does Lou say about the tuning effect? I seem to recall something about that from a while back.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not really sure. I've never heard Lou comment one way or the other on that topic. Was he talking about in the past, around the time the cam was introduced? I don't know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What's the going price for a G5 cam these days? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think they can be had on the forums for around $400 used. *I think* they are around $495 new, if I'm not mistaken. If I am wrong, someone please correct me there, but I'm quoting what I see on his website.
#19
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I switched for 2 reasons. One and the most important was the shake. It drove ME frickin crazy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I use mine to go around town alot in stop and go, and while you are at a light the RV mirror shakes so bad u can't see the car behind you. Now that shake comes and goes every few seconds, but it was still way too much for me. The other reason I switched was because I broke 2 Isky 295's with the cam in only 6 weeks. The cam has a .581 lift. That is too much for me right now with all these springs breaking. The TR has a .561 lift which is a little better. As far as the power goes they both come on pretty fast. I also switched out SLP LT and went with Macs so the dyno graph of both cams in irrelevant. Hope this helps u guys. <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />
#20
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The shaking doesnt bother me at all. I'm idling at 950 rpms and have no problems with the cam. I ran 11.7 @ 114 this Summer and hope to get 11.5s this month. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />