Cams cams cams, need final advice
11-05-2002, 07:22 PM
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Cams cams cams, need final advice Alright, I am getting within a week or so of when i want to order a cam, but i am having some conflict. I can either buy a BIG cam and just swap in my stock cam for emissions (not a huge deal), or just get a smogable cam. I love power and lope, but i dunno if i can find a cam i can daily drive that is worth the HP.
Alright, its a '98 M6, 4.10s, LT headers, exhaust, ORP, lid, ported MAF, etc. It is daily driven.
I am looking at the TR220 114LSA as a smogable cam.
Now, what cam is the biggest (when i say biggest, i mean big with a reason, i know bigger isn't always better) cam i can go for with the 4.10s and a daily driver? A guy is selling a 232/226 110LSA XE-R cam, but i dunno if that will be streetable. What about the TR230/224 111LSA? Will the HP be substantial over the 220 114LSA? I plan on keeping my heads stock, at least for the near future.
Thanks for advice.
<small>[ November 05, 2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: cy ]</small>
Alright, its a '98 M6, 4.10s, LT headers, exhaust, ORP, lid, ported MAF, etc. It is daily driven.
I am looking at the TR220 114LSA as a smogable cam.
Now, what cam is the biggest (when i say biggest, i mean big with a reason, i know bigger isn't always better) cam i can go for with the 4.10s and a daily driver? A guy is selling a 232/226 110LSA XE-R cam, but i dunno if that will be streetable. What about the TR230/224 111LSA? Will the HP be substantial over the 220 114LSA? I plan on keeping my heads stock, at least for the near future.
Thanks for advice.
<small>[ November 05, 2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: cy ]</small>
11-05-2002, 08:50 PM
#2
Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice Good choice for your smog cam. It will pass a sniffer test easily when tuned. As for the 232 and the 230, you will see minimal gains since you're using stock heads. I would stick with the 220 cam or even a 224. The 224 will also pass if tuned properly. Stick with the 114 LSA also, if emissions are concerned.
11-05-2002, 08:53 PM
#3
Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice In CA the TR220/114 cam is about as big as I would go. I sometimes wish I had chosen the 224 over the 220, but the 220 is very driveable and makes awesome power. According to Paul at Thunder the 224 is good for 8-10 hp from 5K up over the 220.
11-05-2002, 08:56 PM
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Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice Is this car your daily driver? If so, I would be hesitant to get the Comp 232/226.
I think the TR 220 114 would be a good cam that should pass emissions.
I think the TR 220 114 would be a good cam that should pass emissions.
11-05-2002, 09:11 PM
#5
Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice Hey!!! The 232/226 XE-R is my old cam. Daily driven. You guys have no clue about the XE-R's fast ramps.. My 232/226 idled better than the T1 and can stand up against the B1.. The only issue is tuning is a must.. I agree that on stock heads you will not see the full benefits of a big cam, but compared to other big cams the 232/226 cam will surprise you.. Oh yeah, I drove up from Tampa, Florida to Baton Rouge, LA which is over 700 miles for the Thunder Shootout and managed 26mpg cruising at 75mph.. I have 4.10's and my car with just me in weighs over 3800lbs with a full tank. I had 2 duffle bags for the trip so I was probably kicking close to 3900lbs.. Not streetable...?
<small>[ November 05, 2002, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
<small>[ November 05, 2002, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
11-05-2002, 09:27 PM
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Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice Of course i don't plan on seeing the gain i would with better heads, but unfortunately i don't have the other $2000 right now to spend on heads.
I love the lope, and i'd love as much power as i can get for the money in a cam, but i dunno if the bigger cam is worth it.
As far as the XE-R, is that going to run a lot different than the TR230/224? The thing is, the XE-R cam would be bought used, then i'd have to buy the pushrods, springs, and retainers seperate. If i went with th TR i could buy it new as a package/kit thing, and i'd save about $100 or so.
I guess i'd be happy enough with the 220 or 224 114LSA TR, but if i can get enough power out of another cam for that same $$$ then why not? As for a daily driver, it goes to school and back monday-friday (its about 1/2 mile), then to lacrosse practice (same distance from my house), and out in the evenings. I don't drive huge distances, i usually don't deal with much traffic, and if i do its not for long.
Should i go with the XE-R used for more, or the TR230/224 for less new? Or should i just go with the 220 or 224 114LSA b/c i won't notice much power difference?
What if i went with something like a hotcam, then with the extra cash buy an LS6 intake manifold and maybe a pulley?
Will the big cams be un-daily-driveable even with the 4.10s? I am leaning to a more radical set-up, but will the gain be worth it (as far as you can assume for me)? Thanks for input, i know i have to decide, but input never hurts.
I love the lope, and i'd love as much power as i can get for the money in a cam, but i dunno if the bigger cam is worth it.
As far as the XE-R, is that going to run a lot different than the TR230/224? The thing is, the XE-R cam would be bought used, then i'd have to buy the pushrods, springs, and retainers seperate. If i went with th TR i could buy it new as a package/kit thing, and i'd save about $100 or so.
I guess i'd be happy enough with the 220 or 224 114LSA TR, but if i can get enough power out of another cam for that same $$$ then why not? As for a daily driver, it goes to school and back monday-friday (its about 1/2 mile), then to lacrosse practice (same distance from my house), and out in the evenings. I don't drive huge distances, i usually don't deal with much traffic, and if i do its not for long.
Should i go with the XE-R used for more, or the TR230/224 for less new? Or should i just go with the 220 or 224 114LSA b/c i won't notice much power difference?
What if i went with something like a hotcam, then with the extra cash buy an LS6 intake manifold and maybe a pulley?
Will the big cams be un-daily-driveable even with the 4.10s? I am leaning to a more radical set-up, but will the gain be worth it (as far as you can assume for me)? Thanks for input, i know i have to decide, but input never hurts.
11-05-2002, 09:44 PM
#7
Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice Very difficult decision. I would ask to see advertised duration on these cams.. The T1 is actually a bigger cam than the 232/226. Just look at the advertised duration of the T1(283) and look at the 232/226(281). The decision is yours.. I have friends with many cams and they are all surprised at the street quality of this cam. The reason I chose 110 lsa was to bring the powerband down for better street manners. Like I said b4. Tuning is the key with this cam.. You will have hot start issues if you do not tune for this cam.. Many are in full guess mode about the big XE-R cams. They do have a lope, but not like you think... My car has never died at a light with A/C on or off.. The car cranks right up.. Secondary to the 110lsa you need to give about 10 sec's for idle to steady during hot starts.. That can be solved with tuning.. If I were in your shoes I would wonder as well. I was actually thinking about going bigger, b4 my better half gave me the thumbs down.. I changed cams looking for the perfect setup with my current heads.. My current heads flow well, but not enough to exploit the 232/226 XE-R. If I would have gone TEA Stage 2's I would have kept the 232/226 cam.
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11-05-2002, 09:50 PM
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Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice The is the question now, will it be worth it for stock heads? I'd love to, and hope to, get my heads ported and all in the future, but i dunno how far down the line that will be.
11-05-2002, 09:59 PM
#9
Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice Not worth it for stock heads. That's my honest opinion. I was under the impression you were getting heads soon.. I would go with a smaller cam.. Try my current cam.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
11-05-2002, 10:21 PM
#10
Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by cy:
<strong>
What if i went with something like a hotcam, then with the extra cash buy an LS6 intake manifold and maybe a pulley?
Will the big cams be un-daily-driveable even with the 4.10s? I am leaning to a more radical set-up, but will the gain be worth it (as far as you can assume for me)? Thanks for input, i know i have to decide, but input never hurts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JMO
I think the Hotcam will need tuning to pass emissions and may struggle a little depending on the testing done. I know someone that did a Hotcam, he had issues with emissions. I think the lowest he got the PPM (limit 220) was like 350 to 400. Hotcam is a 112 LSA and less emission friendly that a 114 LSA cam. The Hotcam did sound good if you like lope etc.
I think stock heads usually flow the most around .475 to .500 lift. After this point the flow drops off. With lifts a little over the peak flow due to momentum the air doesn't get turbulant and back up so the higher lift still work well.
However, if a stock head stalls around .480 or so there is a point when with enough lift (maybe .580 or so) the flow can get disrupted and actually flow less air than a lower lift cam would. I do know many ported heads will start to stall around .570 to .580 lift, due to momentum of the air a little more lift .590 to .600 still works well in these cases.
I would not run a .580+ lift cam on stock heads personally as I don't think the extra lift will get you much if anything over a .560ish lift cam. The .580 lift will require more frequent spring changes or dual springs. The smallest XE-R cam is a 220/220 with .581 lift.
I would pick the TR-220 or TR-224 on a 114 LSA over a XE-R for your application due to less spring issues and the lift being a better match for your stock heads. Comp has XE grind with less lift but the ramps are not as fast as the TR cams.
With ported heads and dual springs, I'd say try an XE-R cam like Vince mentioned.
Good luck.
<strong>
What if i went with something like a hotcam, then with the extra cash buy an LS6 intake manifold and maybe a pulley?
Will the big cams be un-daily-driveable even with the 4.10s? I am leaning to a more radical set-up, but will the gain be worth it (as far as you can assume for me)? Thanks for input, i know i have to decide, but input never hurts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JMO
I think the Hotcam will need tuning to pass emissions and may struggle a little depending on the testing done. I know someone that did a Hotcam, he had issues with emissions. I think the lowest he got the PPM (limit 220) was like 350 to 400. Hotcam is a 112 LSA and less emission friendly that a 114 LSA cam. The Hotcam did sound good if you like lope etc.
I think stock heads usually flow the most around .475 to .500 lift. After this point the flow drops off. With lifts a little over the peak flow due to momentum the air doesn't get turbulant and back up so the higher lift still work well.
However, if a stock head stalls around .480 or so there is a point when with enough lift (maybe .580 or so) the flow can get disrupted and actually flow less air than a lower lift cam would. I do know many ported heads will start to stall around .570 to .580 lift, due to momentum of the air a little more lift .590 to .600 still works well in these cases.
I would not run a .580+ lift cam on stock heads personally as I don't think the extra lift will get you much if anything over a .560ish lift cam. The .580 lift will require more frequent spring changes or dual springs. The smallest XE-R cam is a 220/220 with .581 lift.
I would pick the TR-220 or TR-224 on a 114 LSA over a XE-R for your application due to less spring issues and the lift being a better match for your stock heads. Comp has XE grind with less lift but the ramps are not as fast as the TR cams.
With ported heads and dual springs, I'd say try an XE-R cam like Vince mentioned.
Good luck.
11-05-2002, 10:25 PM
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Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice Alright, thanks a lot for the input guys.
I think i'll go with the TR224 114LSA or similar, and see if i can pass emissions and still get some nice numbers out of it (as i've seen done already). Thanks a bunch guys.
I think i'll go with the TR224 114LSA or similar, and see if i can pass emissions and still get some nice numbers out of it (as i've seen done already). Thanks a bunch guys.
11-06-2002, 02:48 PM
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Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice I'm new at this so please bare with me.
Please tell me if I'm doing this right or no by answering a couple of questions.
1. I have nitrous with 150 shot. Later I'd get cams, either TR 220 114, or a bigger TR224 114LSA cams. Which one would work better with a 100 shot nitrous?
3. Later I'd get heads, which heads would I get, can I just get the ls6 heads, or go with LS1 Stage II?
4. Also, after the nitrous, does it matter if you get cams first or heads, or it doesn't? If it does, which one should I get first.
And with all this put together pass smog safely and run really good with a heavily modified Stereo system, idle correctly and not die on me at a stop light or something with the AC and Raidio on? If not, what else would you have to do?
I'm sorry if I sound dumb as I'm new to this, and I just want to find out a few quick things before I start on the modifying world. I currently don't have none which was stated up there, but I'm trying to find a guide line to what to do first <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
P.S. The car would be for a 97 C5 M6 coupe, with possably a new LS1, if not, LS6 intake will be added, and all other bolt ons.Only exhaust mod would be the an electric cut-out. W/ 3.73 gears, and probably a 12bolt (Not really sure). I DON'T HAVE THE CAR YET, BUT MOST LIKELY WILL.
Thanx guys!
<small>[ November 06, 2002, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Predator ]</small>
Please tell me if I'm doing this right or no by answering a couple of questions.
1. I have nitrous with 150 shot. Later I'd get cams, either TR 220 114, or a bigger TR224 114LSA cams. Which one would work better with a 100 shot nitrous?
3. Later I'd get heads, which heads would I get, can I just get the ls6 heads, or go with LS1 Stage II?
4. Also, after the nitrous, does it matter if you get cams first or heads, or it doesn't? If it does, which one should I get first.
And with all this put together pass smog safely and run really good with a heavily modified Stereo system, idle correctly and not die on me at a stop light or something with the AC and Raidio on? If not, what else would you have to do?
I'm sorry if I sound dumb as I'm new to this, and I just want to find out a few quick things before I start on the modifying world. I currently don't have none which was stated up there, but I'm trying to find a guide line to what to do first <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
P.S. The car would be for a 97 C5 M6 coupe, with possably a new LS1, if not, LS6 intake will be added, and all other bolt ons.Only exhaust mod would be the an electric cut-out. W/ 3.73 gears, and probably a 12bolt (Not really sure). I DON'T HAVE THE CAR YET, BUT MOST LIKELY WILL.
Thanx guys!
<small>[ November 06, 2002, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Predator ]</small>
11-07-2002, 05:55 PM
#14
Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Predator:
<strong>I'm new at this so please bare with me.
Please tell me if I'm doing this right or no by answering a couple of questions.
P.S. The car would be for a 97 C5 M6 coupe, with possably a new LS1, if not, LS6 intake will be added, and all other bolt ons.Only exhaust mod would be the an electric cut-out. W/ 3.73 gears, and probably a 12bolt (Not really sure). I DON'T HAVE THE CAR YET, BUT MOST LIKELY WILL.
Thanx guys!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Best advice I can give is to read the stuff on the board and talk with people so you can learn as much as can. There is lot's of good info on this board.
After you get a car, you might want to have it for a few months before you decide what mod's you want to do. I had my car for several months before doing any mod's.
BTW - I don't think a 12-bolt will fit in a C5.
Vette's have IRS which is very different than the live axle that F-bodies have.
Good Luck
<strong>I'm new at this so please bare with me.
Please tell me if I'm doing this right or no by answering a couple of questions.
P.S. The car would be for a 97 C5 M6 coupe, with possably a new LS1, if not, LS6 intake will be added, and all other bolt ons.Only exhaust mod would be the an electric cut-out. W/ 3.73 gears, and probably a 12bolt (Not really sure). I DON'T HAVE THE CAR YET, BUT MOST LIKELY WILL.
Thanx guys!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Best advice I can give is to read the stuff on the board and talk with people so you can learn as much as can. There is lot's of good info on this board.
After you get a car, you might want to have it for a few months before you decide what mod's you want to do. I had my car for several months before doing any mod's.
BTW - I don't think a 12-bolt will fit in a C5.
Vette's have IRS which is very different than the live axle that F-bodies have.
Good Luck
11-11-2002, 10:20 AM
#15
Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Predator:
<strong>The car would be for a 97 C5 M6 coupe, with possably a new LS1, if not, LS6 intake will be added, and all other bolt ons.Only exhaust mod would be the an electric cut-out. W/ 3.73 gears, and probably a 12bolt (Not really sure). I DON'T HAVE THE CAR YET, BUT MOST LIKELY WILL.
Thanx guys!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yep....Vettes have IRS and the 12 bolt is a sold axle
From what I have heard, the Vette rear ends take A LOT of power before they go out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<strong>The car would be for a 97 C5 M6 coupe, with possably a new LS1, if not, LS6 intake will be added, and all other bolt ons.Only exhaust mod would be the an electric cut-out. W/ 3.73 gears, and probably a 12bolt (Not really sure). I DON'T HAVE THE CAR YET, BUT MOST LIKELY WILL.
Thanx guys!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yep....Vettes have IRS and the 12 bolt is a sold axle
From what I have heard, the Vette rear ends take A LOT of power before they go out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
11-11-2002, 01:56 PM
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Re: Cams cams cams, need final advice </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99 Black Bird T/A:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Predator:
<strong>I'm new at this so please bare with me.
Please tell me if I'm doing this right or no by answering a couple of questions.
P.S. The car would be for a 97 C5 M6 coupe, with possably a new LS1, if not, LS6 intake will be added, and all other bolt ons.Only exhaust mod would be the an electric cut-out. W/ 3.73 gears, and probably a 12bolt (Not really sure). I DON'T HAVE THE CAR YET, BUT MOST LIKELY WILL.
Thanx guys!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Best advice I can give is to read the stuff on the board and talk with people so you can learn as much as can. There is lot's of good info on this board.
After you get a car, you might want to have it for a few months before you decide what mod's you want to do. I had my car for several months before doing any mod's.
BTW - I don't think a 12-bolt will fit in a C5.
Vette's have IRS which is very different than the live axle that F-bodies have.
Good Luck</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh yeh, I forgot about the IRS thingy that Vettes had. Is it true that they can handle alot before they go out, or was it ment as a joke?
If not, what can you replace it so it won't snap?
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Predator:
<strong>I'm new at this so please bare with me.
Please tell me if I'm doing this right or no by answering a couple of questions.
P.S. The car would be for a 97 C5 M6 coupe, with possably a new LS1, if not, LS6 intake will be added, and all other bolt ons.Only exhaust mod would be the an electric cut-out. W/ 3.73 gears, and probably a 12bolt (Not really sure). I DON'T HAVE THE CAR YET, BUT MOST LIKELY WILL.
Thanx guys!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Best advice I can give is to read the stuff on the board and talk with people so you can learn as much as can. There is lot's of good info on this board.
After you get a car, you might want to have it for a few months before you decide what mod's you want to do. I had my car for several months before doing any mod's.
BTW - I don't think a 12-bolt will fit in a C5.
Vette's have IRS which is very different than the live axle that F-bodies have.
Good Luck</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh yeh, I forgot about the IRS thingy that Vettes had. Is it true that they can handle alot before they go out, or was it ment as a joke?
If not, what can you replace it so it won't snap?
