The skinny on Schubeck lifters
11-12-2002, 03:10 PM
#1
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas-freakin'-Texas
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The skinny on Schubeck lifters For those that were asking lifter questions within the last week or so, here is some information on the Schubeck Racing lifters.
I just got off the phone with the folks at Schubeck, and the deal with the LS1 lifters they sell is that they are modified Eaton (read: GM) pieces. If I understood the gentleman properly, what Schubeck does is take a new lifter, compress the "piston", machine the body of the lifter for a snap-ring (as opposed to the factory spring clip used to retain the piston inside the lifter body), and set total hydraulic plunge of the lifter to .010"-.012". The lifters are intended to be run at zero lash (that it to say, 0 lash, 0 preload) when hot, so it is recommended to adjust rockers/pushrod length such that there is .002"-.003" lash when cold (keep thermal expansion in mind).
The diameter of the body of the lifter, as well as the roller/needle bearings, etc... are all the exact same as factory parts, so there shouldn't be any more slop/noise with the Schubeck pieces than there would be with a set of replacement GM lifters.
Schubeck charges @$400 for a set of the modified lifters. Mine are on the way... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I just got off the phone with the folks at Schubeck, and the deal with the LS1 lifters they sell is that they are modified Eaton (read: GM) pieces. If I understood the gentleman properly, what Schubeck does is take a new lifter, compress the "piston", machine the body of the lifter for a snap-ring (as opposed to the factory spring clip used to retain the piston inside the lifter body), and set total hydraulic plunge of the lifter to .010"-.012". The lifters are intended to be run at zero lash (that it to say, 0 lash, 0 preload) when hot, so it is recommended to adjust rockers/pushrod length such that there is .002"-.003" lash when cold (keep thermal expansion in mind).
The diameter of the body of the lifter, as well as the roller/needle bearings, etc... are all the exact same as factory parts, so there shouldn't be any more slop/noise with the Schubeck pieces than there would be with a set of replacement GM lifters.
Schubeck charges @$400 for a set of the modified lifters. Mine are on the way... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
11-12-2002, 03:43 PM
#3
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas-freakin'-Texas
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters I honestly don't know how they compare to the Comp 'R' pieces, other than you can get the Schubecks right now, and the Comps are rare as hen's teeth these days.
As for the lift, it didn't occur to me to ask; to be honest, it seems like less of a lifter question than a valve spring question.
The only other comment I can make on the Schubecks (this didn't occur to me until after I made my earlier post) is that due to reduced plunger travel, the Schubeck's should carry less oil in them, making them marginally lighter than "full-plunge" non-modified pieces.
As for the lift, it didn't occur to me to ask; to be honest, it seems like less of a lifter question than a valve spring question.
The only other comment I can make on the Schubecks (this didn't occur to me until after I made my earlier post) is that due to reduced plunger travel, the Schubeck's should carry less oil in them, making them marginally lighter than "full-plunge" non-modified pieces.
11-12-2002, 03:49 PM
#4
Moderator
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Montgomery Texas
Posts: 5,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters I Bought the first set and introduced them to the board and then Bob2of3 bought a set also. I have been trying to get him to sponsor the board so he would sale alot of sets but oh well, the lifters are really good no noise pieces and well worth the price IMO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Steve Franks recommended them a while back to me that's how I heard about them!!!
<small>[ November 12, 2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: BADZ ]</small>
Steve Franks recommended them a while back to me that's how I heard about them!!!
<small>[ November 12, 2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: BADZ ]</small>
11-12-2002, 03:50 PM
#5
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 505
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters i dont know how to ask this, but when you run stock lifters with high lift/rpm they pump up and float,i forget what thats called, will theese prevent this like the comp "r"s do?
11-12-2002, 04:04 PM
#7
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas-freakin'-Texas
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters BADZ- yeah, I think it may have been you that turned me on to Schubeck. I definitely remember seeing his name mentioned on this board.
Air21- yes, the Schubecks prevent lifter pump-up, because of the reduced plunger travel that they have. Pump-up occurs when the lifter cannot bleed off oil pressure fast enough to keep up with the rest of the motor... the result is that valves end up hanging open longer than they are supposed to (as I understand it, there is @.050" preload on factory lifters, and if the lifter cannot bleed fast enough, the actual preload may decrease to, say, @.020"). Because the Schubecks are run without significant preload, they severely reduce pump-up.
Air21- yes, the Schubecks prevent lifter pump-up, because of the reduced plunger travel that they have. Pump-up occurs when the lifter cannot bleed off oil pressure fast enough to keep up with the rest of the motor... the result is that valves end up hanging open longer than they are supposed to (as I understand it, there is @.050" preload on factory lifters, and if the lifter cannot bleed fast enough, the actual preload may decrease to, say, @.020"). Because the Schubecks are run without significant preload, they severely reduce pump-up.
Trending Topics
11-12-2002, 04:16 PM
#9
Moderator
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Montgomery Texas
Posts: 5,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters He has to be a sponsor, I just got off the phone with him and sent him the info so hopefully he will pick up on all this!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
11-12-2002, 05:52 PM
#10
I can shift faster than you.
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 5,133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters If anyone is interested, I have a set for sale that were used for only a few dyno pulls. They are in excellent shape. Here is my thread in the classifieds:
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...c;f=7;t=007857
I bought these from Schubeck a month ago. Joe was great to deal with and he offers an excellent product.
Jason
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.p...c;f=7;t=007857
I bought these from Schubeck a month ago. Joe was great to deal with and he offers an excellent product.
Jason
11-12-2002, 06:42 PM
#11
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Objects in mirror no longer matter.
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters I got rid of mine too. If you don't have T&D rockers or another way to adjust the lash, forget about it.
11-12-2002, 07:18 PM
#12
Moderator
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Montgomery Texas
Posts: 5,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters your talking about solid lifters, you don't need adj. rockers for these Hydralic lifters....These are stock OEM replacements but built to take more RPM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<small>[ November 12, 2002, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: BADZ ]</small>
<small>[ November 12, 2002, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: BADZ ]</small>
11-12-2002, 08:56 PM
#13
FormerVendor
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters Sorry BADZ, but I would NOT recommend running these lifters without an adjustable rocker. You do need to run a slight amount of lash as stated above... Basically you should treat these like solid lifters just run .010" less lash...
Shane
Shane
11-13-2002, 09:50 AM
#14
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas-freakin'-Texas
Posts: 716
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters After discussing it with the guy at Schubeck (I'm not sure who it was), I think what I am going to (try to) do is get an adjustable pushrod (just one of them), bolt everything together, and use the pushrod to adjust lash to @.003"; then unbolt the rocker, measure the pushrod, and order a set of pushrods in that exact length.
The .003" lash should (hopefully) take care of most of the thermal expansion; if it doesn't take care of ALL of it, the lifter still has a few thousandths of hydraulic action left in it, so I'm hoping that any additional expansion can be accounted for there. The guy at Schubeck said this seemed like a pretty good idea, and he saw no flaws in it. We'll see, I guess.
The thing is, all of this seems like (and is) a pain in the ***, but once everything is set up, it should STAY set up until I blow it up or take it apart. I have had my fill of adjustable valvetrains... what a PITA to get everything adjusted just to have to go back an re-adjust it even once a year. I'm all about "set-and-forget".
The .003" lash should (hopefully) take care of most of the thermal expansion; if it doesn't take care of ALL of it, the lifter still has a few thousandths of hydraulic action left in it, so I'm hoping that any additional expansion can be accounted for there. The guy at Schubeck said this seemed like a pretty good idea, and he saw no flaws in it. We'll see, I guess.
The thing is, all of this seems like (and is) a pain in the ***, but once everything is set up, it should STAY set up until I blow it up or take it apart. I have had my fill of adjustable valvetrains... what a PITA to get everything adjusted just to have to go back an re-adjust it even once a year. I'm all about "set-and-forget".
11-13-2002, 09:44 PM
#15
On The Tree
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The skinny on Schubeck lifters I have had 3 sets of lifters done by Sherman Racing in La. He does what was explained at Schubeck for $225 a set. I race a LS1 in NHRA stock eliminator and have had great success with their product. I have stock used lifters for sale at $60.00 a set shipped. I can drop ship them to Cliff for you. Call Cliff at 225-473-4923 Tell him you talked to Dan from Minnesota.
