99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Wanted to kick this back to the top and see if anyone has more input on the topic.

I ended up getting the Katech and so far it as worked fine. Oil pressure is the same as stock.

Darren

The oil pumps on LS1 engines are Not A Problem. Listen Guys, I have been a Chevy tech for 19 years. Its the same Old thing Trash through any oil pump Can stick the relief Valve. I know the gm bulletin it was on some of the 99 corvettes. I saw one. It was a stuck pressure relief valve. It had casting slag in it. I had one that someone had put a cam in and locktight made its way to the oil pan and then to the pressure relief valve. It was stuck open allowing all the oil to bypass to the oil pan.
Look No one and I mean No one make a high volume oil pump for the Ls1. No one is changing the clearences in the Ls1 pump because they are so tightly clearenced now. All the ARE , Katech, MTI or whoever are doing is smoothing the oil inlet and outlet path of the pump, and some are adding washers to bump the minimum relief pressure to more appealing levels.
Most people that are haveing oil related failures are not do to the pump on its own.
Some people on this board look for low oil pressure this on thier cars and then blame there pump. I tell you some time to much reading is not so good. If you oil pressure at idle is not as good as you buddy car it doesn't mean you need and oil pump. Think of all the factors involve. You have a needle the is placed on a rod the is control base on resistance from a sending unit,( that fails all the time, I can tell you that for sure) that is mounted in the rear of your engine. Its fead by an oil galley that passes throught lifter bores which all leak at verious rates. It also feed mains and rods which very in ware based on lots of things oil change intervals, type of oil viscosity, filter used, temperture of starts, how long it sits how much your lifter bores leak. and the list goes on and on.
Anyway the pickup in you pan is picking up unfiltered oil its has to chew its way through the pump and then to the filter. I do my own pumps and there is no majic. Just clean oil and a clean bottom end. I know people will post how much more oil pressure they have now, but thats a given if you add washers to the spring.
Its phisics and the laws don't change.

Darren

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I think Darren makes good points and I started to leave the stock oil pump on the car. Sounds like contamination could actually be the source of the failures more than anything else.

I knew if I left the stock pump, I would worry about it, so $110 the Katech, gives me piece of mind.

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Darren:
All the ARE , Katech, MTI or whoever are doing is smoothing the oil inlet and outlet path of the pump, and some are adding washers to bump the minimum relief pressure to more appealing levels. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just to clarify, Katech (to my knowledge) does NOT do any shimming. In my case there was zero pressure increase between the 2001 pump and the Katech (both were slightly higher than my stock 2000 pump).

Darren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fulton 1:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Darren:
All the ARE , Katech, MTI or whoever are doing is smoothing the oil inlet and outlet path of the pump, and some are adding washers to bump the minimum relief pressure to more appealing levels. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just to clarify, Katech (to my knowledge) does NOT do any shimming. In my case there was zero pressure increase between the 2001 pump and the Katech (both were slightly higher than my stock 2000 pump).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are right! Katech is one that does not add shims to raise the minimum oil pressure relief. They work on bearing clearences and any other bleeding area to get the correct oil pressure. Guys its not nessassary to have crazy high oil pressure for an engine to live.
also the springs in you 2000 to your 2001 oil pump may read differently from each other if you put them on a spring scale. 2001 being stiffer.

Darren

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

The stock oil pressure is fine it actually doesn't need to be raised in 99 percent of the applications. Unneed extra oil pressure is just a waste of hp.

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

Why not just completely eliminate the bypass valve, and keep the revs down until it warms up (like you should anyway) ?

MelloYellow

If you get a good stock pump with 38+ psi, leave it alone. I had an awesome stocker, read all the horror stories and replaced it. It used to always read 40-45psi+.

The new aftermarket one from one of the supporting vendors failed on me. The coulda blamed a bearing tho. We didn't do a post-mortem. Chicken or the Egg.

BurnOut

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by INTMD8:
<strong>Why not just completely eliminate the bypass valve, and keep the revs down until it warms up (like you should anyway) ?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">INTMD8 is onto something here... Personally, I don't drive the car at all until it has warmed up enough for the needle on the temp guage to begin to move. Once I begin driving, the car sees no more than @25% throttle and 2000 RPM shifts.

Then again, I'm kind of a freak about oiling and engine longevity since I have seen the effects of oil starvation on a motor... it ain't pretty.

Nonetheless, I am thinking about doing a Katech pump when I go H/C, just for the peace of mind... my eventual goal is to run the car on a road course at some open track events, so it is certainly within the realm of the possible that prolonged periods at high (5000-6500) RPM would cause the relief valve to open (and potentially get stuck). Methinks that having the casting flash removed from the spring bore is cheap insurance. FWIW, I am also looking into an oil pressure kill switch that'll cut ignition power (or fuel, I haven't decided) if oil pressure drops below a given level. This feature was on L98 'Vettes back in the mid-late '80's, and seems like a hell of an idea... I dunno why it isn't on ALL motors, to be honest...

AFTICA

iTrader: (8)

Burnout... I have thought about the oil pressure kill switch also. I think it's probably the best insurance out there. My question about it is how do you keep the switch from killing power to the ignition or fuel on startup when oil pressure is minimal?

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

As for the kill switch, seems like an excellent idea. How does the L98 switch get by the start up? Seems like the samething or similar should work for the LS1.

Sounds like an excellent idea for Harlan or SLP or someone like that to develop and have another good product to sell.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MelloYellow:
<strong>

The new aftermarket one from one of the supporting vendors failed on me. The coulda blamed a bearing tho. We didn't do a post-mortem. Chicken or the Egg. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mello,

How did the pump fail? Had it seen lot's of high rpm? Was the aftermarket oil pump an ARE unit? What mod's had been done to the engine?

Thanks

BurnOut

iTrader: (1)

AFTICA, 99- I'm not real sure how the L98 gets past startup, I'll have to research it a little further. I know that the oil pressure switch interfaces with the PCM (in other words, it doesn't directly cut fuel, it does it through the computer), so it may get some kind of "grace period" during cranking.

At the very worst, installing that switch on an LS1 would mean a slightly extended cranking interval until oil pressure built up during cranking. If you've ever watched a mechanical oil pressure guage during cranking, oil pressure generally builds fairly quickly.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Any new thoughts on stock vs aftermarket oil pumps?

4thGENRETARD

Yeah, look at it from a business point of view. I the stock pumps were so bad, why wouldn't GM call them back? Simply because the failure stats were within the accepted failure forecasts.
There is no such thing as a bulletproof part. All will fail, unless you reach ZERO friction. The oil you use and it's interval change can be a factor of pump failure.
I'm going to cast my vote on stock one just as I did for the stock chain. Good enough for Le Mans, good enough for me.

jrp

iTrader: (16)

had no problems with the stock pump 96k miles. during the cam swap i put in a ported ls6 pump, no problems with that either.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I'm not sure about the stock chain...but I'm starting to lean toward a stock oil pump on my new motor.

Others w/insights on this?

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

I don't know if you guys know this or not, but it sounds like everyone has missed the point that the "aftermarket" pumps are actually PORTED STOCK units. The companies buy the LS6 (01+ factory pumps), port the inlet to improve flow capacity, make sure the bypass can not stick, and thats about it.

I personally tell everyone with a 97-00 LS1 to buy a ported LS6 pump as GM had a problem with those years' pumps going out when motors were being prept for the GrandAM racing. In 01 the pump gears were hardened some more to make them hold up to high RPM a little better (though 100Ks of the olders do fine).

For 01 and up, unless you have 100K+ miles on the car, port your own and save the money. The difference between unported and ported was 10 PSI in my motor (stock short block). Stock, the pump showed 30psi at idle and 55psi at 4000RPM. Ported, my pump shows 40psi at idle and 65psi (so flowing MORE THAN the bybass can let off ) at 3500RPM.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

yeah we know the "aftermarket oil pump" are just ported by the aftermarket.

The only way the oil pressure goes up with a ported pump as I understand it if the spring is shimed or replaced in some way.

My 99 T/A with the ported Katech (probably an LS1 pump) doesn't have the shimmed spring and runs stock pressure.

I've noticed my wifes 02 Z28 runs higher oil pressure with it's stock pump. This must be because it has the LS6 pump?

Thanks

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

ok...just checking


Not entirely.

You can order pumps with shims in them (Kateck for example) that raise the bypass spring pressure and they will usually top out at 80psi vs. the 60psi stock.

But, increased flow will result in more pressure just from the fact that you can only push so much oil through a passage at a givin pressure. In order to pump more, the pressure has to go up. As I said before, I gained 10 psi (and hit my max psi 500RPM sooner) just as a result of the increased flow capacity of the pump (no shims on the bypass spring).

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

The pressure went up because of increased flow capacity?

I don't follow...care to spell it out for me? Is your pump ported in a different manner?

The way my Katech was ported, it was micro-polished so it wouldn't hang and the casting flash was removed...nothing more. Flow the same according to Katech. Katech told me the oil pressure would stay the same unless they shimmed the spring. They felt increasing oil pressure for my application was unnecesary back in Nov of 02.

The pressure would stay the same because the same amount of oil was being moved as before thru basically the same opening. The oil pump is ported and oil pressure is the same as stock.

I wanted the oil pressure to stay the same - no point wasting engine power to create unneeded oil pressure...just more prone to pump the pan dry etc.