surging and bucking with my MS3 is TERRIBLE!
Originally Posted by erikthegoalie
WHen I had Jeremy work on it, we did about an hour of dyno time (5 pulls or so), and a little under an hour of actual street tuning. We went down some roads, and through some parking lots...all the while the dam thing wanted to stall, etcetc... Is this amount of time adequate for a cam of this nature?
Originally Posted by brad8266
Chalk it up to another big *** cam that doesn drive well. Most of it may very well be in the tune, but keep in mind that you can only tame a cam like that so much by tuning. There is only so much you can do when you are dealing with 15 degrees of overlap. Most of the people that will tell you how streetable it can be dont own a cam like that. the cams behavior is ground into it and can not be fully tuned out. Most of the bad behavior should be able to be tuned out. Didnt Formatto tune your car?
FWIW I run a 232/236 and made the numbers in my sig, and my setup is extremely streetable and it doesnt even have a good tune. For me personally anything as large as a Magic Stick is just to big on the street for my taste.
There are plenty of guys making huge power with small cams.
FWIW I run a 232/236 and made the numbers in my sig, and my setup is extremely streetable and it doesnt even have a good tune. For me personally anything as large as a Magic Stick is just to big on the street for my taste.
There are plenty of guys making huge power with small cams.
Hey Brad,
I care to completely disagree with what you said about Magic Stick cams.
If you would have said that a month ago, I would have agreed with you.
The slightest change in your VE tables of 5 to 10% makes a HUGE difference in how the car drives, not to mention changing the Throttle Cracker settings and Desired Airflow tables (Thanks EFI Live!)
I tuned my MS4 the first time using AutoVE tuning but did not realize the AFR reading in my EFI live was not accurately displayed on my EFI Live causing my tuning software to read 1 point leaner.
After that tune, it drove richer, bucked, surged and very harsh to drive in traffic and cold starts.
After correcting the AFR value in EFI Live, MAN, what a HUGE Difference!
I am an not kidding when I say my car drives like stock! Just like a stock car from a cold 60 deg start, I can drive off immediately (PLEASE DO NOT flame me for driving a large cammed engine cold).
No stalling, no bucking, no high idle speeds after coming to a stop.
All I have left to finish is my WOT tuning which should be soon on a dyno.
So to sum this up. TSP did an awesome job with the specs on the MS4 cam.
Way streetable and pulls like a **** with no end in sight.
Originally Posted by 808ws6
Hey Brad,
I care to completely disagree with what you said about Magic Stick cams.
If you would have said that a month ago, I would have agreed with you.
The slightest change in your VE tables of 5 to 10% makes a HUGE difference in how the car drives, not to mention changing the Throttle Cracker settings and Desired Airflow tables (Thanks EFI Live!)
I tuned my MS4 the first time using AutoVE tuning but did not realize the AFR reading in my EFI live was not accurately displayed on my EFI Live causing my tuning software to read 1 point leaner.
After that tune, it drove richer, bucked, surged and very harsh to drive in traffic and cold starts.
After correcting the AFR value in EFI Live, MAN, what a HUGE Difference!
I am an not kidding when I say my car drives like stock! Just like a stock car from a cold 60 deg start, I can drive off immediately (PLEASE DO NOT flame me for driving a large cammed engine cold).
No stalling, no bucking, no high idle speeds after coming to a stop.
All I have left to finish is my WOT tuning which should be soon on a dyno.
So to sum this up. TSP did an awesome job with the specs on the MS4 cam.
Way streetable and pulls like a **** with no end in sight.
I care to completely disagree with what you said about Magic Stick cams.
If you would have said that a month ago, I would have agreed with you.
The slightest change in your VE tables of 5 to 10% makes a HUGE difference in how the car drives, not to mention changing the Throttle Cracker settings and Desired Airflow tables (Thanks EFI Live!)
I tuned my MS4 the first time using AutoVE tuning but did not realize the AFR reading in my EFI live was not accurately displayed on my EFI Live causing my tuning software to read 1 point leaner.
After that tune, it drove richer, bucked, surged and very harsh to drive in traffic and cold starts.
After correcting the AFR value in EFI Live, MAN, what a HUGE Difference!
I am an not kidding when I say my car drives like stock! Just like a stock car from a cold 60 deg start, I can drive off immediately (PLEASE DO NOT flame me for driving a large cammed engine cold).
No stalling, no bucking, no high idle speeds after coming to a stop.
All I have left to finish is my WOT tuning which should be soon on a dyno.
So to sum this up. TSP did an awesome job with the specs on the MS4 cam.
Way streetable and pulls like a **** with no end in sight.
i would agree, i drive mine to and from work every day (mine is a 408 though) and its completely streetable..
btw i have ALOT of tuning time into my car though....
helps to have a buddy with an older HP tuners on his spare laptop maybe you have a vacum leak or something else that affected the tune? jeremy tuned my car and i have the same exact combo as you, the drivabilty is very good for a large cam, sometimes youll need to bring it back a few times just to tune it in perfect, id check to make sure there is no issues with the car and then try to have him tweak it some more
12 Second Club
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,498
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From: Corpus Christi
a cam that size will need more time for tuning then what you are mentioning. I'm running speed S15 and it took my tuner about 6 hours to get it decent, then I drove it around for a couple of days and brought it back for some more tuning with no charge. you definetly need some more tweeking .
I spoke to Jeremy, he actually contacted me...that's cool...thats why I go back ya know!
Anyway, I will meet with him next week and we will work it out, then i will repost!
Erik
Anyway, I will meet with him next week and we will work it out, then i will repost!
Erik
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
I just had my MS4 tune by jeremy last week. So far the car has been driving very nice. I've only taken it out once but with very little surging. I have to say that jeremy did a very nice job and worked until 12am to get my car done. Again he is for sure a very stand up guy.
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-=Modified=-'s cam does that. He's prolly at home and tuning now. We now have full acess to EFI Live and HP tuners..
It bucked like crazy anywhere under 2k rpm. I have been told that agressive cams need some real TLC in a tune.
It bucked like crazy anywhere under 2k rpm. I have been told that agressive cams need some real TLC in a tune.
Well maybe I will proved wrong one of these days. Anyone near me wanna let me drive their giant cammed car so maybe my mind will be changed?
I have just seen so many people here after they install them say its streetable 100% but a month or 2 later after they have actually driven it a lot they will come back and say how unstreetable it is. Its like you want it to be considered streetable so bad that your mind plays tricks on you then eventually you realize that it just isnt. I could be wrong though.
I have just seen so many people here after they install them say its streetable 100% but a month or 2 later after they have actually driven it a lot they will come back and say how unstreetable it is. Its like you want it to be considered streetable so bad that your mind plays tricks on you then eventually you realize that it just isnt. I could be wrong though.
I have the exact same setup but I have stock gears in my car. The car drives awesome, I have no bucking, surging or stalling at any point. I drive the car everyday to and from work with no problems. Jeremey is a solid tuner and I am sure he will fix the tune for you. Awesome numbers man!
John
John
my cam acts wild also. if I don't let it sit and idel for awhile after starting (warm or cold) it will rev on its own and stick there for awhile. then sometimes the rpms will dive whe stopping to 3 or 400. it will also get to bucking pretty good. I called the tunner and told him he said that its so big its going to act up and he tried for 3 hours to get it right. I work 7 days a week and don't really have time to take off. it I to take off to go back form him to work on its some more it will end up costing me over 350 bucks from missing work. so I talk to theblurls1, he has hp tuner and only lives like 5 miles from my work. I went to his house and tok a look at the tune. I was kinda disappointed in what we found. there wasn't 3 hours worth of work done. it looked to be a pretty rough tune. me and casey road around for about 3 hours trying to fix it. more like he tried I just drove. this was his first time to fix an ideling problem. he is going to read up and try to figure out how to get it right. I offered him a hundred bucks but he wouldn't take it. I'm going to get a wideband to try and help out the tuning process . we are going to wait till I put on my new intake and tb the try again. if anybody knows how to line this problem out plz pm me.
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
Originally Posted by brad8266
Well maybe I will proved wrong one of these days. Anyone near me wanna let me drive their giant cammed car so maybe my mind will be changed?
I have just seen so many people here after they install them say its streetable 100% but a month or 2 later after they have actually driven it a lot they will come back and say how unstreetable it is. Its like you want it to be considered streetable so bad that your mind plays tricks on you then eventually you realize that it just isnt. I could be wrong though.
I have just seen so many people here after they install them say its streetable 100% but a month or 2 later after they have actually driven it a lot they will come back and say how unstreetable it is. Its like you want it to be considered streetable so bad that your mind plays tricks on you then eventually you realize that it just isnt. I could be wrong though.
I daily drive mine. MS3 with 4,000 stall speed converter and tune by LS1 Speed. It has died on me twice in over two years.
The only time it truly is not happy is a cold start when the temps are below 10*F if I don't let it idle for a couple minutes first. I might not have to worry about that from now on.
I am still happy with my camshaft choice. I will be living in GA starting next month, but nearly 300 miles away from Savanah.
I put down really nice number on a tune that bucks and surges.
Mine is a 228R. Im trying to figure it out, but tuning is a seperate talent than building a motor. it takes time and experience.
Mine is a 228R. Im trying to figure it out, but tuning is a seperate talent than building a motor. it takes time and experience.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: United States
do yourself a HUGE favor. . . Check the O2 sensors. My bro got a tune and found out that he drove too much on the cam w/o a tune and had to buy a new o2. He had the rears turned off so there was no sign of being bad.
hey all thank you for the replies....Jeremy is a cool dude, and is very respected throughout the US- I recommend him...as stated above...it just needs more TLC....he was rushed that night unfortunately and was not able to dedicate a few more hours to the tune...he even admitted that we would have to do a round two and gave mesome instructions as far as feathering the gas went and all...so thats fine.
i just posted this in order to see if i could do something in the meantime...the 02 sensors is something i never thought about...how much are the replacements? like $200 for the pair right?
I will ask Jeremy...
Erik
i just posted this in order to see if i could do something in the meantime...the 02 sensors is something i never thought about...how much are the replacements? like $200 for the pair right?
I will ask Jeremy...
Erik
Originally Posted by JohnJanz@Texas-Speed
I have the exact same setup but I have stock gears in my car. The car drives awesome, I have no bucking, surging or stalling at any point. I drive the car everyday to and from work with no problems. Jeremey is a solid tuner and I am sure he will fix the tune for you. Awesome numbers man!
John
John
Erik it is all in the tune....
i jsut recently had my 228/232 on a 110+4 installed. keep in mind i am on the stock 3.42. Car had bad bucking, idle dip, no warm start and hesitation. My car was on the dyno for 7+ hours. I took the car back to my tuner 5 times. The tune makes all the difference in the world. Get you throttle cracker table in tact. Also get the g/cyl down then that way you can get the right VE!
But my car now, it only bucks between 1600-1800 RPMs. I have no idle dip or idle hang. The hesitation is a lot better. You will get hesitation under 2K RPMs with a big cam, you are not making, not until 3K+ RPMs. And the only thing that is wrong with my car is the warm start. My IAC will not reset at all.
So take the car back have them tune it for street manners.
Nice numbers, what is all done to your car?
i jsut recently had my 228/232 on a 110+4 installed. keep in mind i am on the stock 3.42. Car had bad bucking, idle dip, no warm start and hesitation. My car was on the dyno for 7+ hours. I took the car back to my tuner 5 times. The tune makes all the difference in the world. Get you throttle cracker table in tact. Also get the g/cyl down then that way you can get the right VE!
But my car now, it only bucks between 1600-1800 RPMs. I have no idle dip or idle hang. The hesitation is a lot better. You will get hesitation under 2K RPMs with a big cam, you are not making, not until 3K+ RPMs. And the only thing that is wrong with my car is the warm start. My IAC will not reset at all.
So take the car back have them tune it for street manners.
Nice numbers, what is all done to your car?
i think one thing people are not putting into a factor here is driver. i drive my car everywhere so i have a lot of seat time in it. i know it in and out. i know what it doesnt and doesnt like and what temps it runs best in etc. if i get the go one morning and take off right away it will act bitchy for a while. if i put my lead shoes on one day and hot rod from light to light it can get bitchy when i slow to a stop for a second or 2. u have an aggressive clutch in the car which in itself doesnt like to be driven like a sissy. (no offense) i noticed a drop in driveability as far as putsing around a parking lot just from the clutch swap pre cam in my car. but back on topic if one of my buddys gets in or my g/f gets in and drives (all of which dd manual cars) it can get bitchy. its done things that i have tried and been unable to replicate. so what im saying is put in some seat time. learn what it likes. between that and jeremy tweaking it a bit more it will be just like driving ms daisy also if u have a scan tool monitor ur iac counts and try and get them as close to 0 as possible when the car has reached temp. trust me u will thank urself when u r done.
tommy
p.s.-jeremy is the man so lets keep this civil gentleman
also if u have a scan tool monitor ur iac counts and try and get them as close to 0 as possible when the car has reached temp. trust me u will thank urself when u r done.tommy
p.s.-jeremy is the man so lets keep this civil gentleman
