These guys are being real A--holes over a simple question that was asked by one of our forum buddies that is in need of help. I really think that the instructions mean that some engines may require the washers and others may not. The only way to know for sure is by checking the installed height with a heighth gage.

 

You are correct. He has been told that several times. I agree it could have been put a little more nicely, but he has been told this same thing over and over and over.

 

Kool car Sun

What I want to know is on stock setup if the washer was required to have stock geometry. Is that so hard? No one has the answer?

 

I rest my case......

 

Bane the funny thing i posted thin in the gen 4 section by mistake. I posted in the gen 3 section and I had my answer in a few minutes. No washer for stock. I rest my case

 

howto has has the dummy directions. you should be able to figure it out

 

Its in fortunate that you listen to the wrong answer(unless of course this guy came over and mocked them up on your ride) and completly ignore the correct ones in this thread...go have fun putting them on with out the washers and without checking to see if they are needed like you should

 

I used washers on my LS1. But I have a different cam and pushrods.
If I may offer a suggestion. Put some dykem on the top of the valve. Set you preload as SLT has explained. Once you have the correct preload, then you can turn the motor over some and take the rocker arm back off to see where the dykem has worn off. This will show where you valve wipe is. If it's not centered, then you will either have to go to a longer, or shorter pushrod, and re-adjust your lifter preload again. Then recheck the valve wipe.

 

throw a handful of loose washers in and they will take their place and all your problems will be solved, or at least ours will!

 

The bad thing is all I wanted was a place to start. Check with washer first or without.

Red
Perload does not matter unless you have solid lifter.

 

Check without first. The rockers are likely built to a set of dimensions that don't take into account all the potential tolerance stackups of the GM heads, valves and machining. Each motor will be slightly different, and a few will be out enough that the shims (I hate the terms washers) will be required to get the wipe pattern set up correctly. Since they are fixed thickness shims, then the amount of adjustment will also be somewhat limited. If you check and the wipe pattern is biased towards the intake side, you will need to add a shim and re-check to push the wipe pattern out towards the exhaust. If biased to the exhaust side, then you need to reduce the height and this will require machining (or at that point go to a fully adjustable rocker). If the wipe pattern is slightly biased to the intake side, this is better then slightly biased to the exhaust side since the rocker tip will be closer to the center (intake side bias) when fully open thereby reducing valve guide side loads when the spring is at maximum force.

 

1. You were given a place to start, the directions said to put the rockers on without the shims/washers, then if you need them, to install them.

2. Preload does matter in hyd. lifters, You have to have preload for it to make max power, and be "quiet" if you dont have preload, the valvetrain will be very loud.

If you would have read the instructions, step by step, you would have known what to do step by step, people won't hold your hand and answer you exact question, sometimes you have to think.

 

Thanks for the laughs guys.

BTW... do I need to use the washers on stock setup ?

 

Vettenuts

Great answer. You win. Why did you not post that the first page? Then I would not have to have 3 pages of BS?

Thank You

WS6
The post by red said to set the preload of the lifter. With hyd lifters this will change. Therefore checking the valve wipe preload is not a key factor. The rocker need to move the valve from full open to closed

 

Do I need to use washers on a stock setup??????




.....oh ****...I'm not even installing anything....


YES OR NO????

 

Once you have a satisfactory wipe pattern, you can determine the pushrod length required to get the proper hydraulic lifter preload. Don't forget that pushrods are measured in gauge length and using a vernier to measure the length of an adjustable pushrod will not give the correct length to order.

 

God guys, thanks for the laughs funny thread

 

Forgot one thing, on an exhaust side bias, lashing caps could be used to raise the height of the valve stem.

 

Vettenuts

How do u measure the checker and find out what push rod u should get?

 

Once you have established your wipe pattern and set that up, you can then measure for pushrods. The adjustable pushrod will start out at a closed value (the Comp Cams one I used starts at 6.800"). The length is "gauge length" and is measured from a point on the end where the ball is 0.140" in diameter (Comp uses this value). You will see two white lines on the adjustable pushrod, when these line up you are exactly at an even number of turns and each turn increases the pushrod length by 0.050". Screw out the adjustable pushrod to approximately the stock length and then close it three turns. Now install the adjustable pushrod in cylinder #1 intake and install the rockers, tighten to about 60 in-lbs making sure the pushrod stays loose, if it is too long don't tighten the rocker on it (inch pounds, in other words you are just snugging them down, no need to torque to 22 lb-ft at this time since you will likely put them on and off a few times). Your adjustable pushrod should be loose in the up and down direction. If not, you need to remove the rocker and back off another turn of the pushrod. Once the rocker is on and the pushrod is loose, unscrew the pushrod until it just takes out the clearance (so the rocker doesn't "tap" "tap"on the valve stem) at which time you are at zero lash. You might be able to turn it in place, if not then you need to remove and turn then re-install, check, remove again, etc. until you can get to zero lash. Remove the rocker and the pushrod and see how many turns you have by screwing the pushrod together counting the turns as you go using the white lines for reference until it is fully closed again. For example, lets say you have the Comp Cams pushrod and after you measure you remove the pushrod and it is 10.5 turns from the position you measured until you screw it tight again back to 6.800". Each turn is 0.050" so you would have:

6.800" + 10.5 X 0.050" = 7.325"

Now check the exhaust rocker, the number should be about the same, if not re-measure both (this may be a good idea anyhow just to double check). If you now have the same measurement you add in your lifter preload. If you run with 0.100" preload (this is approximately stock preload) then you add this to the measured value:

7.325" measured length + 0.100" preload = 7.425" pushrods

These would be the pushrod you order. If you end up with an odd number for length, try to keep the lifter preload in the 0.080" - 0.100" range and use that to try and get to an available pushrod length.

Hope this all makes sense