H/C Nightmare - PTV Problems - Help
Originally Posted by Z28 MeTaL HeAd
Ive never heard of the stud going through a block before, especially on these.
We did clean out the holes and then spray them with air to remove any water and bits of crap.
Originally Posted by Z28 MeTaL HeAd
The motor never ran. We cranked it over a few times to prime the oil pump with a flick at the key, not a constant crank, a few very quick spurts, that is all, on the last crank the motor stopped turning and we heard a thuds (which was the cylinder number 1 cylinder filled with water.
After this happened, I hand cranked the motor counter-clockwise, away from the point where it stopped spinning. It went 1 full rotation backwards. After some more hand cranking I couldnt figure out what else to do, JinxedZ decided to go for another crank with the starter, where it went 'thud' again.
The motor NEVER actually fired over, it didnt even think about it.
After this happened, I hand cranked the motor counter-clockwise, away from the point where it stopped spinning. It went 1 full rotation backwards. After some more hand cranking I couldnt figure out what else to do, JinxedZ decided to go for another crank with the starter, where it went 'thud' again.
The motor NEVER actually fired over, it didnt even think about it.
Thanks for clarifying man. I may not have been clear in my original post.
Is there any way to test what EDS01SS stated? Compression test?
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by jinxedz
Thanks for clarifying man. I may not have been clear in my original post.
Is there any way to test what EDS01SS stated? Compression test?
Is there any way to test what EDS01SS stated? Compression test?
My only suggestion right now is to drain all the water out of the block/rad. and than bolt the rockers back down and see if it will hand crank a full rotation than.
I'm reading this thread you used GM head gaskets. Could you have install them backwards they say front on them maybe you flipped that side by accident. They only other thing it could maybe be is the port job.
You might try this procedure as you do your reassembly. Instead of waiting until everything is buttoned up to spin the crank why not put the old crank bolt in and while you're doing the reassembly put a wrench on the crank and spin it over(plugs removed) every once in a while. That way if you make a mistake you'll catch is right away instead of being suprised to find the engine won't even spin over after you have the job done as you were. You sound like you were very thorough in doing the job, but you obviously made a mistake somewhere along the way or you would be asking for help now. This added step only takes a few extra minutes to do, but it would have paid BIG benefits in your case.
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hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you CAN bend rods by "flicking" the starter. I did it to a 4 cyl. long time ago at work when I changed the fuel inj. and all the fuel in the rail went directly down into the cyl. when I tried to start it after I was "done", it canked over about 1 or 2 rev's and went BANG. that was it. I kinda knew what it was right away. the rod was bent over like a limp dick. Id pull the #1 head and get a look at the piston/cyl. walls/head inside and out. before you pull it though, Id take off the intake and look down the int. runner and see if I can see where it is machined through (if thats the problem). if you dont see it, then get yourself a coolant press. tester (its a hand pump that will pressurise the coolant system) and press. the system and SEE where the coolant is comeing in at. ofcourse you need to refill it though. also, better drain the oil to get the water out of the oil.
good luck.
good luck.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: BFE
Just take the thing apart and find out where is the problem. I would seriously doubt any head related problem since motor never fired.
I still think as i said that cyl # 1 was cracked by wrong stud install or water in bolt hole.
I still think as i said that cyl # 1 was cracked by wrong stud install or water in bolt hole.
Last edited by PREDATOR-Z; May 6, 2007 at 06:48 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Bergen County, NJ
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Just take the thing apart and find out where is the problem. I would seriously doubt any head related problem since motor never fired.
I still think as i said that cyl # 1 was cracked by wrong stud install or water in bolt hole.
I still think as i said that cyl # 1 was cracked by wrong stud install or water in bolt hole.
Once the heads are off, we'll know what the problem is.
Last edited by PREDATOR-Z; May 6, 2007 at 12:40 PM.
Teching In
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by 98SS2836
I'm reading this thread you used GM head gaskets. Could you have install them backwards they say front on them maybe you flipped that side by accident. They only other thing it could maybe be is the port job.
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by eallanboggs
You might try this procedure as you do your reassembly. Instead of waiting until everything is buttoned up to spin the crank why not put the old crank bolt in and while you're doing the reassembly put a wrench on the crank and spin it over(plugs removed) every once in a while. That way if you make a mistake you'll catch is right away instead of being suprised to find the engine won't even spin over after you have the job done as you were. You sound like you were very thorough in doing the job, but you obviously made a mistake somewhere along the way or you would be asking for help now. This added step only takes a few extra minutes to do, but it would have paid BIG benefits in your case.
Im very confident we did NOT install anything incorrectly.
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by Irocss85
hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you CAN bend rods by "flicking" the starter. I did it to a 4 cyl. long time ago at work when I changed the fuel inj. and all the fuel in the rail went directly down into the cyl. when I tried to start it after I was "done", it canked over about 1 or 2 rev's and went BANG. that was it. I kinda knew what it was right away. the rod was bent over like a limp dick. Id pull the #1 head and get a look at the piston/cyl. walls/head inside and out. before you pull it though, Id take off the intake and look down the int. runner and see if I can see where it is machined through (if thats the problem). if you dont see it, then get yourself a coolant press. tester (its a hand pump that will pressurise the coolant system) and press. the system and SEE where the coolant is comeing in at. ofcourse you need to refill it though. also, better drain the oil to get the water out of the oil.
good luck.
good luck.
Thats a good idea about the coolant pressure tester...regardless the heads have to come out though...
Teching In
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Just take the thing apart and find out where is the problem. I would seriously doubt any head related problem since motor never fired.
I still think as i said that cyl # 1 was cracked by wrong stud install or water in bolt hole.
I still think as i said that cyl # 1 was cracked by wrong stud install or water in bolt hole.
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From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by DaddySS
Agree, all the guessing is interesting but the heads need to come off regardless unless you're considering just trashing the engine and getting a new one.
Once the heads are off, we'll know what the problem is.
Once the heads are off, we'll know what the problem is.
well, the reason I suggested to use the press. tester first to build press in the coolant system is if its a hairline crack say, in teh floor of the port, you might not be able to see it with the head off. if you find the leak first, or atleast figure out that its not leaking into the port, you know where to look when you do have it off. plus if they overported them and that caused the leak, then they owe you a set of heads and your money back.
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From: Gateway International Raceway
Originally Posted by Z28 MeTaL HeAd
You would be wrong. The ARP stud kit comes with ARP moly assembly lubricant, Studs, Washers & Nuts. Every single ARP stud I put in myself and used the moly assembly lube on *every* thread of every stud. Once the head was slid over the ARP's, you could see their was threads flush with the head-bolt base-circle, ontop of each base-circle also sat a ARP washer, which took up even 'more' threads.
The ARP's are not the issue, all nuts definitely were torque'd down correctly without issue.
The ARP's are not the issue, all nuts definitely were torque'd down correctly without issue.
Pull the intake off with coolant in the engine and see if the intake runner for number 1 in the head is full of water. Sounds like a porting job that was a bit too much possibly. You've got to take it apart any way so start with the intake and check that 1st.
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Originally Posted by Irocss85
hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you CAN bend rods by "flicking" the starter. I did it to a 4 cyl. long time ago at work when I changed the fuel inj. and all the fuel in the rail went directly down into the cyl. when I tried to start it after I was "done", it canked over about 1 or 2 rev's and went BANG. that was it. I kinda knew what it was right away. the rod was bent over like a limp dick. Id pull the #1 head and get a look at the piston/cyl. walls/head inside and out. before you pull it though, Id take off the intake and look down the int. runner and see if I can see where it is machined through (if thats the problem). if you dont see it, then get yourself a coolant press. tester (its a hand pump that will pressurise the coolant system) and press. the system and SEE where the coolant is comeing in at. ofcourse you need to refill it though. also, better drain the oil to get the water out of the oil.
good luck.
good luck.
Connecting rods arent the same for all cars, nor are starters.
I would be really suprised if we did any damage to the rod.
The only thing i noticed when we did all this was that the starter spun freely at the last attempt, meaning 2 things, the teeth on the starter have now been chewed off, or the flywheel teeth have been chewed off.
As for damage to the actual bottom end, i dont know, if it took an over-rev, i doubt a bit of water would hurt it, unless the starter makes so much torque that it could have done that damage.
One of the heads is off, and the other one is coming off this week.
Also, when the head is off, we will do a hand cracking procedure to just see if the pistons come all the way up, if the rod was bent it'd have difficulty, and most likely not even come up all the way.