What causes a lifter to rotate in its bore?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,069
Likes: 74
From: Casselberry FL
What causes a lifter to rotate in its bore? I'm trying to understand what may have caused this condition recently in my block and haven't had much success using search. Any ideas what I can do to reduce this in the future? Are the Morels with the bars combined with the Jesel retainers the only viable solution?
Originally Posted by JimMueller
I'm trying to understand what may have caused this condition recently in my block and haven't had much success using search. Any ideas what I can do to reduce this in the future? Are the Morels with the bars combined with the Jesel retainers the only viable solution?
You will notice that the LS1 lifters have a bearing type ring on the top and bottom of the lifters. What generally happens is the aftermarket springs will cause a side loading effect on a somewhat aggressive cam lobe. You get the lifters to rock in the bore or a lifter bore that was slightly larger then the rest and eventually it will waller the hole out if you will and turn in the bore. When this happens the block usually can be repaired and fitted for a larger lifter like the better SBC ones. The SBC ones have a better bearing surface since most of the body takes the loads instead of just the two rings found on a stock LS1 lifter.
Originally Posted by p8ntmunky
does this happen with the ls7 lifters also?
Originally Posted by p8ntmunky
stocks on left
Google a SBC lifter and try to find a close up of it. I cant get on google for some reason right now.
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Originally Posted by p8ntmunky
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,069
Likes: 74
From: Casselberry FL
All we found was: Distorted lifter tray bore, flat-spotted lifter roller, roller stuck in lifter bore (tapped out with hammer on an old pushrod), and the damaged lifter bore. Oh, and the obvious metal bits in various places of the bottom end.
Now,this combination of heads, Comp cam, Comp OEM lifters, and lifter tray has been running fine in the same condtitions since spring 2004. So I don't understand what changed.
Now,this combination of heads, Comp cam, Comp OEM lifters, and lifter tray has been running fine in the same condtitions since spring 2004. So I don't understand what changed.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,069
Likes: 74
From: Casselberry FL
Here's something a friend came up with after talking to his machinist. What if I lofted that lifter at least once from holding it on my 7200 rev limiter for a few seconds? There were probably 15 laps, 40s each, where maybe I was on the rev limiter 3-5 seconds total during certain sections.
Also, upon disasembly of the heads, we found different size shims. This was apparently done the last time they were repaired after a blown head gasket, although I don't know if was the speed shop which handled the repair, or the shop they sent it to to fix the heads 'as best possible'. They are 918 springs, about 4 years old I believe.
If it lofted, will the new PRC Platinum springs and Cadillac lifters reduce that possibility? How else can I reduce lofting?
Also, upon disasembly of the heads, we found different size shims. This was apparently done the last time they were repaired after a blown head gasket, although I don't know if was the speed shop which handled the repair, or the shop they sent it to to fix the heads 'as best possible'. They are 918 springs, about 4 years old I believe.
If it lofted, will the new PRC Platinum springs and Cadillac lifters reduce that possibility? How else can I reduce lofting?
Originally Posted by JimMueller
They are 918 springs, about 4 years old I believe.
If it lofted, will the new PRC Platinum springs and Cadillac lifters reduce that possibility? How else can I reduce lofting?
If it lofted, will the new PRC Platinum springs and Cadillac lifters reduce that possibility? How else can I reduce lofting?
Your other option is a rev kit, but I haven't seen very many for LS1's, so prepare to $$$ up if you choose that route.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 359
Likes: 1
From: Orlando, FL
Jim,
I just spun a lifter and chewed it up with my tr224. I was running 918s for a few years as well. My guess is that I had a spring fail, and the lifter 'hopped' on the lobe... My 918s saw about 40k+ miles.
My bore isn't damaged though, so I'm just installing a set of LS7 lifters, new cam, new springs/seats/seals and calling a day. (more like 4 months...)
I just spun a lifter and chewed it up with my tr224. I was running 918s for a few years as well. My guess is that I had a spring fail, and the lifter 'hopped' on the lobe... My 918s saw about 40k+ miles.
My bore isn't damaged though, so I'm just installing a set of LS7 lifters, new cam, new springs/seats/seals and calling a day. (more like 4 months...)
If you had a spring fail wouldn't you know it? You certainly would have discovered it during the tear down. Even if a spring failed the lifter tray would prevent the lifter from rotating. The lifter tray AND spring would have to fail simutaneously for this to happen. That's unlikely. The pin in the lifter roller could fail. The lifter roller and needle bearings would then come out in order for the lifter to leave its' bore. By that time the cam is shot. This is kind of unlikely as well.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,069
Likes: 74
From: Casselberry FL
ARE used to sell a LS1 Hyrda-Rev Kit back in 1998 or 1999, but I thought they stopped selling it because it 'wasn't needed'.
I found an old post which indicates 918's can't control the valvetrain above 6400:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....22&postcount=3
Can't find the link on Katech's site, but here is the text:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....59&postcount=5
The only thing I can find about a LS1 rev kit indicates to use lightweight components and the proper spring. My springs didn't break, but we didn't test the pressure. They may have been very weak.
Juissed: You were using a .650 lift cam on 918's? I thought Comp stated 918's were originally good to .625, then lowered it to .600 when their 921's came out? Or is that the new cam you're putting in? Which springs are you going with?
I found an old post which indicates 918's can't control the valvetrain above 6400:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....22&postcount=3
Can't find the link on Katech's site, but here is the text:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....59&postcount=5
The only thing I can find about a LS1 rev kit indicates to use lightweight components and the proper spring. My springs didn't break, but we didn't test the pressure. They may have been very weak.
Juissed: You were using a .650 lift cam on 918's? I thought Comp stated 918's were originally good to .625, then lowered it to .600 when their 921's came out? Or is that the new cam you're putting in? Which springs are you going with?
Last edited by JimMueller; Jun 17, 2007 at 06:33 AM.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 359
Likes: 1
From: Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by JimMueller
ARE used to sell a LS1 Hyrda-Rev Kit back in 1998 or 1999, but I thought they stopped selling it because it 'wasn't needed'.
I found an old post which indicates 918's can't control the valvetrain above 6400:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....22&postcount=3
Can't find the link on Katech's site, but here is the text:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....59&postcount=5
The only thing I can find about a LS1 rev kit indicates to use lightweight components and the proper spring. My springs didn't break, but we didn't test the pressure. They may have been very weak.
Juissed: You were using a .650 lift cam on 918's? I thought Comp stated 918's were originally good to .625, then lowered it to .600 when their 921's came out? Or is that the new cam you're putting in? Which springs are you going with?
I found an old post which indicates 918's can't control the valvetrain above 6400:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....22&postcount=3
Can't find the link on Katech's site, but here is the text:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....59&postcount=5
The only thing I can find about a LS1 rev kit indicates to use lightweight components and the proper spring. My springs didn't break, but we didn't test the pressure. They may have been very weak.
Juissed: You were using a .650 lift cam on 918's? I thought Comp stated 918's were originally good to .625, then lowered it to .600 when their 921's came out? Or is that the new cam you're putting in? Which springs are you going with?
Originally Posted by eallanboggs
Is the Rev Kit currently available for the LS series? Last time I inquired they weren't making them for this engine.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...k/HPIM0624.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...k/HPIM0622.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...k/HPIM0621.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...k/HPIM0625.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...k/HPIM0626.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...k/HPIM0627.jpg
If you still have the lifter trays where the lifter turned, look and see if any of them were a #10. These were found to be an issue and were not correctly aligned. OK for stock, but once you push the motor and up the pressures there were issues.