camaross383: it's not the ls1 combuston chamber design it's his own design. the four little valves would cover more surface area in the combustiion chamber. alowing alot more flow along with a higher velocity through each valve, which is also very important. thats how they make crazy power.

JF WS6: well i see the whole heat soak thing but the way i look at it port the hell out of the holley intake and instead of polishing or keeping it cast get it ceramic coated hell if it can keep headders cool i'm sure the intake would stay cool as well. thats my 2.

 

Their LT1 program never got off the ground, so I don't expect their LS1 program to grow legs if they are waiting for us to call them.

I think they put out less than 10 sets of LT1 4v heads.

 

PSJ is AFR going to sponsor here when they put out their heads to get it out to a large pool of potential customers?

 

I think they should start sponsoring now and put up a post on here so we can ask some questions

 

I would kill to see what AFR can do on a set of LS1 heads. Thier 215 raised runner heads for the LT1 are amazing. I hope to see something from them soon! My money will be waiting to test a set out.

 

I don't know, sounds like a pipe dream to me.. The predicted gains, IMO, are way off the charts. At least, unless they're planning on making their flow @.700 lift and 8500RPM. I don't know of any "streetable" aftermarket head that bolts on 200HP.

00z: As far as saying their is no comparison to be had between 2 valve and 4 valve mustangs and the moderate gains the 32 valve head offers, I think that is just plain ignorant. I think it's a fair estimator of what can be expected with the LS1, at least to get you in the ball park. Particular engine models aren't mystical... Engines are air-pumps, pure and simple; more air in, more power out. IF, and that's a big IF, anyone decided to produce aftermarket heads for the LS1, I for one will be expecting gains of around 20%-25% like you see on the 4.6L... Not gains of 50%-60% like you are touting.

Hey, you show me a 200HP bolt on cylinder head, I'll show you my Visa card.

 

Dude, you're missing the point completely..... just porting a holley/weiand intake is not good enough. The whole intake needs to be REDESIGNED to keep up with extremely high flowing heads. This means different runner lengths, sizes, shapes etc. etc. Like I said the Holley intake is based from the LS6 intake. They are pretty much identical. Porting it may help it flow a LITTLE better, but not enough to keep up with really extreme race heads. The LS6 intake is great for what it was intended for, but it wasn't intended for an extreme all out high HP race type application which these heads would really be of value.

In any case, if AFR is making a new set of custom designed LS1 heads, they will most likely be very tough to beat..... And as PSJ said, the LT1 program never really took off so it's doubtful heads for the LS1 will either, especially if they cost an arm and a leg.....

 

What is AFR's website url?

 

Well stated. 200 RWHP on top of a bolt-on car gets you a minimum of 530 RWHP. Very few turbo & S/C cars get over 500 RWHP with the benefit of 6+ lbs of forced induction.

If they made heads that with a moderate cam (e.g. equivalent streetability of 224/224 112 or 228/228 114)that put down 500 RWHP by 6400 rpm, there will be a big market for them, even at $4k - $5k for a set.

 

www.airflowresearch.com

 

I'm talking to the engineer over there right now, I'll post the highlights of the conversation in a few minutes.

 

Just for fun, I went to the Arao site and dug up some flow numbers on their SBC heads (they don't specify LT1 or traditional SBC, but as far as the ports are concerned, I see no difference), and plugged them onto a "known" motor in Desktop Dyno 2000.

Yeah, yeah, I know, Desktop Dyno is not a REAL dyno, but hear me out... as someone else in this thread mentioned, engines are air pumps, and as long as the tune is correct (read: proper A/F ratio is maintained and ignition timing is set in such manner that it is as advanced as possible without getting into detonation), their behavior should be pretty predictable (though not necessarily the power they would make). In other words, I trust Desktop Dyno in that it will tell me what changes will result if a particular parameter is changed... for instance, it shows a softer low-end and a stronger mid/top-end if you simply close up the lobe sep on a particular cam. While I don't trust it for quantification, I think that it does a fair job of showing you which way you are going with a particular combination as you make specific changes.

All of that being said (that was a mouthful!!), it would seem as if the Arao heads really need a cam designed around their flow characteristics... go look at the flow sheets and tell me if you see something strange... like how at low lifts the exhaust side outflows the intake side.

All I am saying is that we can all make assumptions based on what we know for the current (general) flow characteristics of LSx heads but if a new head has drastically different flow characteristics, all bets are off.

Don't get me wrong, I would find a 150-200 hp bolt-on head difficult to believe as well, unless I saw one... but after that you can believe that I'd be saving all my pennies, nickles, and dimes to pony up the necessary cash to hop on that train...

 

according to arao's dyno sheets they are around 203 hp bolt on over stock and 159 over a good aftermarket head look on the site it says right their. heres the link http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm
oh and i do take visa, how good is your credit limit by the way? and as far as me being ignorant. everyone uses diffrent style combustion chamber some work better than others and obviously some dont work as good as others. like the old style cc that was flat in the back (gm they use this style on their older 23 deg heads) COMPARED to a heart shaped cc (trick flow uses this style) the heart shaped combustion chamber is alot more efficent and works alot better. as far as ford heads i couldnt tell you i know nothing about fords other than what their headlight look like in my rear view.

JF WS6: i see what your saying. i figured that the holley would be your best bet to increase flow and coating it to reduce heat soak. if there is little increase in porting that intake design i guess we're sol untill something cheaper comes out.

everyone else: i'm just stating from whats on their site about gains, flow, and price i didn't just pull a number out. this is what they say about what they sell now. will the ls1 style (if it's ever made) perform and cost like the stuff they have now? i dont know. all i know it was a good idea he had and i just wanted to know if anyone liked it so we could possibly show him the intrest in his product so he can start his r&d work on the head.

 

I talked to Tony at AFR for a long time, he's a good guy.

He is in the process of design all the ports. He said that AFR will have some LS_ heads on display at SEMA and PRI. His feeling was that they would be ready by the end of year unless they fall way behind on production of their other cylinder heads. Sounds like he's well researched and it's not a bad thing he daily drives a C5.

Anyway, from the sounds of things, they are going to offer at least two versions, an NA version that has ~65-67 cc chambers and a forced induction head that has 75 cc chambers!!! I like the sound of those FI heads! They will come either bare or with valves depending on how you order them. He may have said that they will offer 2 NA heads but I'm not sure... One other thing, I like how he mentioned that they have cut up a lot of stock heads to see where they are thin and prone to breaking through...

I look forward to seeing the heads at PRI.

 

I would imagine that their horsepower gains are not with stock intake and cam. I would think they would have the intake and cam selected to work on their heads, and show how restrictive the stock heads are with those perameters. I could be wrong, but a stock LSx cam with Stage III LS6 heads will not be worth very much.
I like the idea of the 32V pushrod heads. Can't wait to see the finished product even if I never own a set .