AFR / LS6 Heads ?
afr's are good heads but look at what the fastest h/c cars are running...they are running heavily ported factory casting heads. Mind you when i say heavily ported that typically means they will be more expensive then the afr's are. Look in the drag racing section on this forum if you want to see what the fast cars are running.
Have fun!
Guys, the pricing on the AFRs will be very close at most places. I spoke with Tony and he just found me someone that had a set in stock milled to my specs. I got mine from Rick@Synergy, and I must say he was a GREAT guy to deal with! He even threw in a new set of MLS header gaskets for free
Was this the same ESP in Sterling, MA. They have a mustang and there numbers tend to be lower.
Can you elaborate on the setup: Headers, Intake, exhaust system and EXACT cam specs; LSA lobe type and lift etc ...
tilly
Can you elaborate on the setup: Headers, Intake, exhaust system and EXACT cam specs; LSA lobe type and lift etc ...
tilly
Last edited by tilly; Nov 23, 2007 at 10:39 PM.
East Side Performance in Wallingford Conn. Dyno Jet. Yes, Headers, exhaust, LS6 intake,Mamo cam. [224/228 possibly] It made 406rwhp/393rwtq. Stock 3.43 gears. 01-03 Zo6. It happened to be on the dyno when I stopped by there one day. They only tuned the car. They didn't build it.
East Side Performance in Wallingford Conn. Dyno Jet. Yes, Headers, exhaust, LS6 intake,Mamo cam. [224/228 possibly] It made 406rwhp/393rwtq. Stock 3.43 gears. 01-03 Zo6. It happened to be on the dyno when I stopped by there one day. They only tuned the car. They didn't build it.
The car you saw did not have a FAST 90 setup
It likely did not have the electric water pump
We don't know what headers or exhaust it ran - LG has the best system by far for a C5 or C6
Since the tuner did not build the car, there is likely less motivation to tweak the tune to the extent Tony has
We don't know what it dyno'd before mods
We don't know exact cam spec's, or if the heads were milled at all
All of that said, something is likely still wrong with car. Relativly stock Z06 cars are usually putting 345 to 360 to the wheels, so the exhaust, cam and tuning alone should have cleared the results you posted.
Again, I'm not debating the numbers you saw, rather the extent to which that car was prepped in comparison to Tony's.
There is plenty of reason to believe you saw that car run that number, but I'm betting he did not optimise the combination in the manner Tony has. Tony has every reason to use the best parts in conjunction with his heads, as the reputation of his product is at stake. From your post, we can infer several things:
The car you saw did not have a FAST 90 setup
It likely did not have the electric water pump
We don't know what headers or exhaust it ran - LG has the best system by far for a C5 or C6
Since the tuner did not build the car, there is likely less motivation to tweak the tune to the extent Tony has
We don't know what it dyno'd before mods
We don't know exact cam spec's, or if the heads were milled at all
All of that said, something is likely still wrong with car. Relativly stock Z06 cars are usually putting 345 to 360 to the wheels, so the exhaust, cam and tuning alone should have cleared the results you posted.
Again, I'm not debating the numbers you saw, rather the extent to which that car was prepped in comparison to Tony's.
The car you saw did not have a FAST 90 setup
It likely did not have the electric water pump
We don't know what headers or exhaust it ran - LG has the best system by far for a C5 or C6
Since the tuner did not build the car, there is likely less motivation to tweak the tune to the extent Tony has
We don't know what it dyno'd before mods
We don't know exact cam spec's, or if the heads were milled at all
All of that said, something is likely still wrong with car. Relativly stock Z06 cars are usually putting 345 to 360 to the wheels, so the exhaust, cam and tuning alone should have cleared the results you posted.
Again, I'm not debating the numbers you saw, rather the extent to which that car was prepped in comparison to Tony's.
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Kens tune is not the problem.
2002 Firehawk
402 LS1 Iron block | MTI Stage 3R | M6 12 bolt | QTP 1 7/8 HVMC
QTP Timing Cover & OIL PUMP | East Side Tuned 523RWHP/497RWTQ
From your signature, we can infer Ken tuned your car to some rather solid numbers. I'm sure he tuned the Z06 to the best of his ability, but that doesn't address any of a dozen other possibilities - some I mentioned, but many more I didn't. It's hard to make any judgement without all of the facts.
honestly afr's are great heads, they offer great throttle response and fuel economy however i know a few people running afrs and they aren't running times any faster then the people with budget ported factory castings (tea,tsp,etc) with similar setups. They may be the best head for a car that is mainly driven on the street but there are definately ported factory heads out there that will outperform them, of course any factory head that performs that well is gonna probably cost more then afr's though.
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 0
From: Bensalem, Pa, now montreal, Quebec
I have an complete AFR HEAD/cam package that im gonna put up for sale. I wanted to sell it locally because shipping is gonna be pricey.
Its the AFR 205 milled fresh from afr to 62cc
AFR 224/228 cam
7.4 Trickflow pushrods
Cometic headgaskets 045 thickness i believe
ARP headbolts.
I want 2500 for everything plus shipping.
Its back home in philly, and i won't be down till Dec 22nd for two weeks and then i can ship them out then so i don't need payment right now, but ill hold the stuff for you or anyone else till i get down there and then we can figure it out.
Its the AFR 205 milled fresh from afr to 62cc
AFR 224/228 cam
7.4 Trickflow pushrods
Cometic headgaskets 045 thickness i believe
ARP headbolts.
I want 2500 for everything plus shipping.
Its back home in philly, and i won't be down till Dec 22nd for two weeks and then i can ship them out then so i don't need payment right now, but ill hold the stuff for you or anyone else till i get down there and then we can figure it out.
__________________
2002 Firehawk
402 LS1 Iron block | MTI Stage 3R | M6 12 bolt | QTP 1 7/8 HVMC
QTP Timing Cover & OIL PUMP | East Side Tuned 523RWHP/497RWTQ
From your signature, we can infer Ken tuned your car to some rather solid numbers. I'm sure he tuned the Z06 to the best of his ability, but that doesn't address any of a dozen other possibilities - some I mentioned, but many more I didn't. It's hard to make any judgement without all of the facts.
2002 Firehawk
402 LS1 Iron block | MTI Stage 3R | M6 12 bolt | QTP 1 7/8 HVMC
QTP Timing Cover & OIL PUMP | East Side Tuned 523RWHP/497RWTQ
From your signature, we can infer Ken tuned your car to some rather solid numbers. I'm sure he tuned the Z06 to the best of his ability, but that doesn't address any of a dozen other possibilities - some I mentioned, but many more I didn't. It's hard to make any judgement without all of the facts.
East Side Performance in Wallingford Conn. Dyno Jet. Yes, Headers, exhaust, LS6 intake,Mamo cam. [224/228 possibly] It made 406rwhp/393rwtq. Stock 3.43 gears. 01-03 Zo6. It happened to be on the dyno when I stopped by there one day. They only tuned the car. They didn't build it.
Wrong and wrong again....
There are numerous cars with AFR 205's and our 224/228 stick (the "Mamo cam" as people like to refer to it), that are making low/mid 400's to the ground without every bolt on that helped my very optimized (and legitimate) set-up make 470-481 RWHP on a half a dozen different dyno's in two States. It averaged about 475 on a decent day....a little better or a little worse depending on who's dyno and weather conditions at the time.
The car/dyno you witnessed (briefly) was obviously not a very good copy....admitidly it didnt have a ported 90/90 (thats 25 by itself)....were the heads milled, thinner gasket used, EWP, UD, cam degreed in, perfect exhaust system (LG Pro at the time), good CAI, optimized timing and fuel.....etc, etc.
You get my point....
Tony
PS....There are a few cars (independent real world builds) within striking distance of my numbers that copied my package almost to the letter. One was an A4 car with a higher stall converter that put down 440....thats an easy 460-470 with an M6.
Lot of interesting responses from people with limited numbers of posts saying that the AFR isnt worth the money. You guys need to look at the whole picture and not just the peak number. Power under the curve and avg hp and tq. I've been there and done that and the AFR's are worth the money right from the beginning because that is what your going to do eventually anyway. SO you might as well save yourself some money and grief right from the beginning and just "take the pill"
Remember is you cant afford the answer you shouldnt be in the game... lol!!
Remember is you cant afford the answer you shouldnt be in the game... lol!!
Teching In
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Pace, Florida
I'am looking for 400+RWHP and 400+RWTQ.On a cam that is not past the 230's, I don't want the power all at the top.And not to change out the springs every year.Low 11's or better in the 10's. on a DD, and after the setup i may go with a 100 shot.The SS is all stock execpt HB tuners 336 RWHP, 3.73's, SLP cat back.Free air. 12.8 @ 107. with 3.42's
Because the numbers are so far out of line as to be suspect, and you came to the post to refute the value of a known good product. Tony pointed out that several others have duplicated his results. I started searching for other results and I stumbled upon this gem in one of the other forum member's signature:
Without heads or cam an '02 Z06 can put up almost identical numbers to the test you saw, but you evidently see no problem with that.
We all have an agenda here. Tony's is to sell his product, a damn good one that a lot of people have run to good success.
Mine is to find the best bang for my buck because I know I'll never be able to afford a 402 with monster heads and all the required upgrades to make it work. There are a lot of good choices out there, but I've thoroughly researched what is available, and AFR 205's consistently deliver the goods. Since I know I can't afford to do it twice, I'll feel better spending my money on the product that gives guaranteed results. I'm here to share my observations with other members of the forum because they've asked for the input. I'm judging the results you've provided because they fly in the face of conventional wisdom, and there has to be good reason why.
You are entitled to not care why that setup didn't work, but I don't think its fair to the community to let one set of poor results like those speak for an otherwise proved setup. Even without the EWP and FAST 90, an otherwise properly prepared M6 car should hit 430-440rwhp.
JustLucky
2002 Z06 [11sec club]
Torch Red/Mod Red; Vara-Ram; P&P TB; 160*T-stat; Kooks LT's w/ catted X-pipe; BB TriFlo PRT exhaust; Hurst Ripper; 403rwhp/390rwtq
2002 Z06 [11sec club]
Torch Red/Mod Red; Vara-Ram; P&P TB; 160*T-stat; Kooks LT's w/ catted X-pipe; BB TriFlo PRT exhaust; Hurst Ripper; 403rwhp/390rwtq
We all have an agenda here. Tony's is to sell his product, a damn good one that a lot of people have run to good success.
Mine is to find the best bang for my buck because I know I'll never be able to afford a 402 with monster heads and all the required upgrades to make it work. There are a lot of good choices out there, but I've thoroughly researched what is available, and AFR 205's consistently deliver the goods. Since I know I can't afford to do it twice, I'll feel better spending my money on the product that gives guaranteed results. I'm here to share my observations with other members of the forum because they've asked for the input. I'm judging the results you've provided because they fly in the face of conventional wisdom, and there has to be good reason why.
You are entitled to not care why that setup didn't work, but I don't think its fair to the community to let one set of poor results like those speak for an otherwise proved setup. Even without the EWP and FAST 90, an otherwise properly prepared M6 car should hit 430-440rwhp.
TECH Regular
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
From: Rolesville, NC
There are numerous cars with AFR 205's and our 224/228 stick (the "Mamo cam" as people like to refer to it), that are making low/mid 400's to the ground without every bolt on that helped my very optimized (and legitimate) set-up make 470-481 RWHP on a half a dozen different dyno's in two States. It averaged about 475 on a decent day....a little better or a little worse depending on who's dyno and weather conditions at the time.
I have a 03 LS6 with TPIS LTs, looking to change to LGs, TPIS TB and my own air box
I currently have LS6 heads and have some LPE SWGT heads sitting in a box weighting for a cam choice, But I am not dead set on the SWGT heads as they love high RPMs Plus I have an ofter to sell them too.
TIA
Tom
I'm running 224/224 112 LSA .581 cam made by comp cams w/ ported LS1 heads and CAI. Makes 400+ rwhp and just under 400 rwtq using ported iron exhaust manifolds. Very useable on the street, and pulls hard to 7000. Will crack low 11's to high 10's with ET streets and a good launch, but my car only weighs 2780.
So because of all that empirical evidence the AFR 224 cam can't make big power and my car really didn't make 475 ish??
Wrong and wrong again....
There are numerous cars with AFR 205's and our 224/228 stick (the "Mamo cam" as people like to refer to it), that are making low/mid 400's to the ground without every bolt on that helped my very optimized (and legitimate) set-up make 470-481 RWHP on a half a dozen different dyno's in two States. It averaged about 475 on a decent day....a little better or a little worse depending on who's dyno and weather conditions at the time.
The car/dyno you witnessed (briefly) was obviously not a very good copy....admitidly it didnt have a ported 90/90 (thats 25 by itself)....were the heads milled, thinner gasket used, EWP, UD, cam degreed in, perfect exhaust system (LG Pro at the time), good CAI, optimized timing and fuel.....etc, etc.
You get my point....
Tony
PS....There are a few cars (independent real world builds) within striking distance of my numbers that copied my package almost to the letter. One was an A4 car with a higher stall converter that put down 440....thats an easy 460-470 with an M6.
Wrong and wrong again....
There are numerous cars with AFR 205's and our 224/228 stick (the "Mamo cam" as people like to refer to it), that are making low/mid 400's to the ground without every bolt on that helped my very optimized (and legitimate) set-up make 470-481 RWHP on a half a dozen different dyno's in two States. It averaged about 475 on a decent day....a little better or a little worse depending on who's dyno and weather conditions at the time.
The car/dyno you witnessed (briefly) was obviously not a very good copy....admitidly it didnt have a ported 90/90 (thats 25 by itself)....were the heads milled, thinner gasket used, EWP, UD, cam degreed in, perfect exhaust system (LG Pro at the time), good CAI, optimized timing and fuel.....etc, etc.
You get my point....
Tony
PS....There are a few cars (independent real world builds) within striking distance of my numbers that copied my package almost to the letter. One was an A4 car with a higher stall converter that put down 440....thats an easy 460-470 with an M6.
Last edited by Firehawk441; Nov 28, 2007 at 07:47 PM.