Lumpy

Being a C5R block gives it ZERO power gains over a regular LS1 or LS6 block.

I say 420-430 RWHP and RWTQ from the factory because they won't be making it radical like a tuner would.

It's the C5R heads that change things, but then it wouldn't be an LS1 or an LS6 any more.

2001CamaroGuy

iTrader: (6)

.....WOW.........looks like someone has some hostility issues.....(hope I’m missing something...that just seemed really harsh.....)



I don’t know if they are Darton-sleeved blocks, but MTI has re-sleeved blocks for $1,995 + core.



The C5R block is undoubtedly the ultimate way to go, but $6,500 just for a block is just too far outside of my budget range (and a lot of other peoples also….) .

I have to say thought, unless you are loaded and have more money than you know what to do with, $25,000 for 500rwhp is CRAZY!!! Sure it’s a limited edition car but wouldn’t it be better to spend $10,000 on a re-sleeved 427 and another $10,000 on a twin turbo and get some real hp?

Perhaps I’m missing something but I like to get my moneys worth out of things.

restoman45

iTrader: (2)

the ones i saw(if u read the whole post) made 490ish to the wheels, but i guess others made 500+ which aint too shabby for a car that matt told me would pass emissions...also, we know the c5r block has no power gains, its just insurance and can take more abuse than resleeved blocks can...


also, the two i saw had 10 bolt rearends, not 12 bolts...

side note..the two i saw had eibach springs on the front but the rears were stock springs and i confirmed this with a few other people, is there a reason that was done?

Lumpy

I thought this was a motor coming from the factory.

Are all these dyno #'s with M6's????

marco383

Cartek C5R 427, 11:1 C.R., streetable cam (sort of), mufflers, no cats, 3.42 C5 drivetrain: 528 RWHP, 520 RWT.

restoman45

iTrader: (2)

it is built by GMMG(same people who do the cat-back exhaust). this is the commemoritave 2002 ZL1 cars we were speaking of...they are built to be streetable(the two i saw were), but still, around 500rwhp...obviously sponsor cars make a lot more power. these are "stage 3" berger's i think...stage 2's are the 475hp cars i think and stage one's are just a lid and catback i believe...correct me if im wrong(the stage 3's are the 600 hp ZL1's. also, matt murphy told me that not all 69 zl1 cars were 427's, he said quite a bit were stage 2 cars...

btw, the two i saw were 6 speeds, im not sure if he made any automatics or not

grb

Neither 12 bolt or A4 were available options from GMMG. It is my understanding that GM mandated C5R blocks. Walden Automotive just retuned a red one that went from 480+/- to 525 RWHP.

Lumpy

what were the cam specs in these 500 RWHP 427's?

Not really. What sponsor is building a N/A 427 with MORE THAN 500 RWHP????

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

MTI
Cartek
MMS
ARE
Lingenfelter
More Performance(not a sponsor on here)
TSP(not a 427, but almost got 500RWHP out of a 396)

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

Apples to oranges............

restoman45

iTrader: (2)

ditto on that one ...like almost every 427 car built is pushin at least 500rwhp unless they put in a TINY camshaft and/or have an automatic or somethin. there are probly more sponsors that have done 500+ to the wheels and we are leaving them out(if one of you sponsors see's this, please chime in and puff your feathers )

i take it you havent been around the ls1 web world very long lumpy?..no offense. do some searches and u can find a ton of guys w/ between 500 and 550 rwhp 427 cars that are NA...

ILLWIN

iTrader: (35)

Yeah, I thought that reply was a little harsh too evilZ28nos, but you're right I can't win against alot of people on this site. (the mustang boys are a different story), but it's what my GA liscence plate reads, and my screen name. And the reason I seem to know so much about you guys is that I researched GMMG. and tried to get a job there. And I have been to your shop, once. And It's the last time I'll ever go, I got treated like something someone had stepped in and tracked through the shop. Anyways I found employment elsewhere. (working on LS1's still ) . The reason I made this post in the first place was just to see what kind of numbers the ZL1 427 cars put down, because we just finished working with one of them at LWA. Before tuning 502rwhp after tuning 515rwhp. I thought the car was awesome myself (except for the stock paper air filter we removed =5rwhp) and sounds like a freakin monster. We are building our own version of the "ZL1 Supercar" I'll be glad to post the numbers we get out of it when the time comes. Just guessing here, but I don't think anyone will we calling Matt Murphy to get any information.

grb

Illwin, are you talking about the C5R motor, clutch, rear end, etc. Lamar is building for my car, #51? Or are you doing another one too? I saw that red ZL1 last week. Pretty car!

ILLWIN

iTrader: (35)

yes sir, that is your car I'm talking about, #51.

Vengeance Racing

Cars vary from Dyno to Dyno we know you guys (LWA) took one of our cars we suspected to read the tuning with you new LS1 edit unlimited version. We keep are tuning conservative and we keep the air filter in when we tune. Remember this is a street car not a race car. Also several cars have 12bolts and we did build a few autos. Just redid ZL1 #1 which made 505RWHP with the automatic in it. The motor had a different cam and alittle more compression but still knowbody can say 505 with a auto is not respectable. We are building several Solid Roller cars that will have more of a race set up (no cats, custom intake, etc...) and should make killer power numbers.

ILLWIN I was just breakin your ***** about you can not win. That is just a cocky name to have with a car that only runs 8.9 in the 1/8. With a name like ILLWIN you gonna have to take alittle heat.

As far as coming by the shop we are not open to the public and we do not have people to just stand around and talk cars or give tours. These are dealer cars and we do not like strangers walking around them to say the least. If we do not know you and you do not have business at the shop (buying exhaust or have a car with us) we simply kick you out. Do not think it was against you in anyway we just do not know you. If you had a shop would you let someone you did not know come in and walk around. I do not think so. Best of luck at LWA hope everything works out with GRBs motor. We are almost done with all of ours. Hope you guys get that thing done soon I would like to see it.

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

ILLWIN, you say you made this post to see what kind of #s the ZL1s put down, then you go on to say you just tuned one to 515 from 502. Either Im confused, or youre just stirring the pot. Either way. Goodluck to you guys.

FWIW, you are not BUILDING a ZL1 for GRB. His car was built and DOCUMENTED at GMMG Inc. You are building a motor for the current ZL1 51. Dont confuse the two.

As for being kicked out of the shop, I believe EvilZ said everything there was to say. GMMG is a closed door operation and will continue to be so. Glad you are enjoying employment with LWA. Lamar runs a top notch operation as well and working on LS1s is all that really matters, whether its at one shop or another.

GRB, looking forward to hearing more details about your setup and the #s she lays down. Hope you will fill us all in since there arent too many .090 headed 427s floating around

ILLWIN

iTrader: (35)

Well, I'll be glad to take the heat for my tag, I knew when I got it that they'red be a price to pay for it from faster cars and their drivers, and the police Hopefully within the next year or two I'll be able to give all you GMMG guys grief at the track (you'll still be able to see me in the rear view mirror) Truth is I have nothing but respect for you, and got to see CamminBeasst's runs at silver dollar a week ago, that car is the badness!

grb

Correct. GMMG built the car and LWA will build the motor and other mods. As some of you know Lamar was given the first free ZL1 which was #51. That's why I wanted #51. The first car Lamar ever worked on for me was a brand new 1970 Daytona yellow LT1 vette. We go back a long way.

Come to think of it he put a roller in a 327 55 chev . years before that that I had screwed up. We were just a few weeks away from building a 427 Hilborn injected (you read right) bad *** motor when a woman in a hurry in the rain put stop to that dream. Had to return a chromed straight front axle. Damnit!

boweryboy

The real power gain from the C5R motor comes from the heads. They flow incredible number 350+ but need a custom intake. A true C5R motor with heads and custom intake should make close to if not more then 600+RWHP. I chose to use a re-sleeved LS1 to get more CU In's.

I know of a buildup being done now with C5R block/heads and custom intake manifold that should yield over 600RWHP.

My motor is a pure NOS motor with forged internals and stout pistons to with stand 300+ shot of NOS eventually. It is also tuned right now for a 200 shot and NA is puts out over 500RWHP and 500RWTQ. Not bad for a re-sleeved .

Fenris Ulf

You forgot Futral Motorsports who builds some kickass allbores and 550+ rwhp superstrokers from what I hear