MAJOR problem need advice
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
From: Bring it........ b*tch
Re: MAJOR problem need advice </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jerome99Z:
<strong>I can always go forged route later on (I will keep rpms down until then) but is replacing 1 piston without dropping motor possible???? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jerome,
You WILL have to pull the motor now, but really, while it is out don't do just whatever is the cheapest. It would be ridiculous to have it out, put stockers back in there and then in a year or two later pull it AGAIN just to rebuild the same stuff. It's more expensive in the long run if you ever plan on running a forged/built bottom end. It's more expensive now, but in the long run it won't be.
<strong>I can always go forged route later on (I will keep rpms down until then) but is replacing 1 piston without dropping motor possible???? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jerome,
You WILL have to pull the motor now, but really, while it is out don't do just whatever is the cheapest. It would be ridiculous to have it out, put stockers back in there and then in a year or two later pull it AGAIN just to rebuild the same stuff. It's more expensive in the long run if you ever plan on running a forged/built bottom end. It's more expensive now, but in the long run it won't be.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Re: MAJOR problem need advice Thanks for the comments guys.
Jerome, that sucks. Sorry about the motor.
JF WS6, if somebody volunteers to send me parts for free I'd be more than happy to document the new parts, but right now I can barely afford food. I'll be doing a how-to cook ramen article next <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Jerome, that sucks. Sorry about the motor.
JF WS6, if somebody volunteers to send me parts for free I'd be more than happy to document the new parts, but right now I can barely afford food. I'll be doing a how-to cook ramen article next <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,043
Likes: 0
From: Texas and Qatar
Re: MAJOR problem need advice I'm going to be installing another Rollmaster timing set tonight. I'll grab some more detailed pictures of the chain and alignment.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Re: MAJOR problem need advice Joeseph, if you are up for it, I'd be willing to augment my writeup with a pic or two from you into my writeup. I would need a GOOD pic of pulling the lower timing gear, as well as reinstalling it and the caveats of doing so.
I will put all arrows and lables onto the pictures so they look like they go with the rest of the writeup style, and I'll give ya a credit at the bottom for the double roller pictures.
I will put all arrows and lables onto the pictures so they look like they go with the rest of the writeup style, and I'll give ya a credit at the bottom for the double roller pictures.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
From: Bring it........ b*tch
Re: MAJOR problem need advice Joseph/JMX,
That sounds like a great idea. If you guys get the install of a Rollmaster added to the head/cam swap instructions I think it will be about as complete as you could get.
Scoggin Dickey has the double rollmaster for about 65 bucks (non heat treated) which is pretty cheap (comparatively anyway.)
JMX, have you spent so much money on mods you can't even buy food? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
That sounds like a great idea. If you guys get the install of a Rollmaster added to the head/cam swap instructions I think it will be about as complete as you could get.
Scoggin Dickey has the double rollmaster for about 65 bucks (non heat treated) which is pretty cheap (comparatively anyway.)
JMX, have you spent so much money on mods you can't even buy food? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Re: MAJOR problem need advice </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JF WS6:
<strong> JMX, have you spent so much money on mods you can't even buy food? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All said and done I haven't spent much on the corvette at all, I sold mods off my SS and that paid for mods on my C5. Out of pocket I've maybe spent $500. What is killing me is the fact that I own 2 ls1 cars and I make huge payments on both each month. Insurance on a mustang gt, camaro SS, and C5 isn't very pleasant either. Seems like there is no market for used Camaros right now, because mine has been $5k under blue book for 6 months now and nobody has brought me cash yet.
<strong> JMX, have you spent so much money on mods you can't even buy food? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All said and done I haven't spent much on the corvette at all, I sold mods off my SS and that paid for mods on my C5. Out of pocket I've maybe spent $500. What is killing me is the fact that I own 2 ls1 cars and I make huge payments on both each month. Insurance on a mustang gt, camaro SS, and C5 isn't very pleasant either. Seems like there is no market for used Camaros right now, because mine has been $5k under blue book for 6 months now and nobody has brought me cash yet.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 0
From: Bring it........ b*tch
Re: MAJOR problem need advice </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
<strong> [QUOTE] Seems like there is no market for used Camaros right now, because mine has been $5k under blue book for 6 months now and nobody has brought me cash yet. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeowch. That is painful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
I say you have too many cars. Just do what I do, I have one 2001 WS6 that gets all my mods and attention, and most of the time either drive a beater or mooch off of your woman's ride. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
If I were you I'd get rid of the SS and the GT and make your Vette as nasty as possible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<strong> [QUOTE] Seems like there is no market for used Camaros right now, because mine has been $5k under blue book for 6 months now and nobody has brought me cash yet. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeowch. That is painful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
I say you have too many cars. Just do what I do, I have one 2001 WS6 that gets all my mods and attention, and most of the time either drive a beater or mooch off of your woman's ride. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
If I were you I'd get rid of the SS and the GT and make your Vette as nasty as possible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Re: MAJOR problem need advice You can keep it cheap by a couple ways. You can get new, stock pistons/rods from Valvegod for about $300. Or also on E-bay. Also replace the rod bolts with the ARP ones for $80.
Or you can get the forged Wisco pistons/rings from More Performance for about $500. They use the stock rods. Again, use the ARP rod bolts.
George
Or you can get the forged Wisco pistons/rings from More Performance for about $500. They use the stock rods. Again, use the ARP rod bolts.
George
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
10 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
From: Wichita, KS - 1400' above sea level ;-)
Re: MAJOR problem need advice </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">originally posted by Jerome99Z:
This is what caused the engine to sieze. A valve broke off and embedded itself into the center of the piston. It looked like one of those old sci-fi pictures of a UFO crashing into the ground.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry to hear about your trouble. Good to see you've kept your sense of humor about the whole deal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> That quote is funny... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
When you have the HEADS and INTAKE off the engine, it most certainly WILL be possible to get just the oil pan off (best thing would be to hoist the engine up off the mounts, seeing as how jacking anywhere on or around the oil pan would be counterproductive....will you REALLY be saving any labor over just going ahead and removing the remainder of the shortblock? NO, by the time you figure in the additional frustration of trying to work on the SHORTBLOCK while its still in the car....
It does sound like replacing all 8 pistons would be a smart move at this point due to the unknown damage to their tops...I'd spring for the rod bolts as well = THAT is your best lower end upgrade per $ outlay. You can get (as said previously) a new or used set of pistons/rods from Valvegod, used from sponsors, or Ebay (I gave a $100 for mine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> )
This is what caused the engine to sieze. A valve broke off and embedded itself into the center of the piston. It looked like one of those old sci-fi pictures of a UFO crashing into the ground.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry to hear about your trouble. Good to see you've kept your sense of humor about the whole deal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> That quote is funny... <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
When you have the HEADS and INTAKE off the engine, it most certainly WILL be possible to get just the oil pan off (best thing would be to hoist the engine up off the mounts, seeing as how jacking anywhere on or around the oil pan would be counterproductive....will you REALLY be saving any labor over just going ahead and removing the remainder of the shortblock? NO, by the time you figure in the additional frustration of trying to work on the SHORTBLOCK while its still in the car....
It does sound like replacing all 8 pistons would be a smart move at this point due to the unknown damage to their tops...I'd spring for the rod bolts as well = THAT is your best lower end upgrade per $ outlay. You can get (as said previously) a new or used set of pistons/rods from Valvegod, used from sponsors, or Ebay (I gave a $100 for mine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> )
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: H-Town
Re: MAJOR problem need advice OK I am convinced now. I can't stand the thought of pulling motor and putting back to stock, so I will go forged piston / arp rod bolts. Plus this will lessen the blow of the mistake in my mind. Yeah thats it. I needed to ditch those stock pistons anyways. <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: H-Town
Re: MAJOR problem need advice Is it absolutely necessary to pull motor if I had to replace 1 piston? Sure I would love to do built bottom end, but funds for project are dwindling. I was speaking with a reputable shop and they said you can replace piston by dropping oil pan. Has anyone done this? The walls of the cylinder are NOT scratched at all nor even glazed at all. The other piston tops are just slightly marked. I have seen lots of other posts saying light marks on the piston are no big deal as long as you smooth the edges out as they just fill up with carbon. I can always go forged route later on (I will keep rpms down until then) but is replacing 1 piston without dropping motor possible????
11 Second Club
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,426
Likes: 0
From: Beaver Falls, PA
Re: MAJOR problem need advice man, that sucks!! i don't know much about the f-bodys, but unless you can get the oil pan off some other way, you have no choice but to pull it. definately lose the stock pistons and rods too if you can. screw it, put in a stroker kit while you have it out.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Re: MAJOR problem need advice Jerome, I just caught this thread. What ended up being the culprit, was it in fact the lower timing gear being off? I want to make absolutly sure it was nothing from my page, and if it was I want to fix it obviously.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: H-Town
Re: MAJOR problem need advice JMX, yes I made the HORRIBLE mistake of keying the lower crank gear on the timing dot instead of the outer crank dot as shown in the picture above. I wish I had seen a post like this beforehand as I did alot of research before the install. If I had used the stock chain as in your instructions JMX I am sure I would be running happily right now.
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,298
Likes: 2
From: new england
Re: MAJOR problem need advice </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jerome99Z:
<strong> OK I am convinced now. I can't stand the thought of pulling motor and putting back to stock, so I will go forged piston / arp rod bolts. Plus this will lessen the blow of the mistake in my mind. Yeah thats it. I needed to ditch those stock pistons anyways. <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dude that sucks about your motor but you could remove heads in car and than support motor with hoist from the top. This will allow you to drop subframe to remove oil pan, you could change 1 piston this way and change all rod bolts with relative ease. I havent done this yet but this is how i would do it if situation arose. Always get second opinion on things like lining up timing marks if you are not sure.
<strong> OK I am convinced now. I can't stand the thought of pulling motor and putting back to stock, so I will go forged piston / arp rod bolts. Plus this will lessen the blow of the mistake in my mind. Yeah thats it. I needed to ditch those stock pistons anyways. <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dude that sucks about your motor but you could remove heads in car and than support motor with hoist from the top. This will allow you to drop subframe to remove oil pan, you could change 1 piston this way and change all rod bolts with relative ease. I havent done this yet but this is how i would do it if situation arose. Always get second opinion on things like lining up timing marks if you are not sure.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: H-Town
Re: MAJOR problem need advice Cool advice LS1derfull. I have been trying to think of a way thats easiest and this seems the best way. Where should I connect the hoist to the block with the heads removed? The head bolt area I guess?
Actually I wish I had doubt about what I was doing. I just knew what I was doing was right so I wasn't questioning the install. Oh well, at least I'll end up with something that I have more confidence in spinning up to higher rpms. I have done alot of do it yourself car repair over the years with much success. This really is the first time I have had something bite me in the ***. A little humbling is a good thing, and will keep me that much more on my toes. I can guarantee I will never make that particular mistake again!
Actually I wish I had doubt about what I was doing. I just knew what I was doing was right so I wasn't questioning the install. Oh well, at least I'll end up with something that I have more confidence in spinning up to higher rpms. I have done alot of do it yourself car repair over the years with much success. This really is the first time I have had something bite me in the ***. A little humbling is a good thing, and will keep me that much more on my toes. I can guarantee I will never make that particular mistake again!