for some reason i here alot and see alot of small cams
beat big cams, are big cams jus dyno queens, i mean
ive seen a 224/224 hit as low as 11.4's and an ms4 hit about the same or even less times,and ive seen small cammed fbodys walk big cam fbodys, i know there is alot more to it(tires,suspesion, driver, etc.) but its jus seems weird.
what do yall think?

 

i have seen the same thing but i can't bash big cams seeing as i'm running a ms3. its like you said its a bunch of different things and how the cars set up.

 

yea im not bashing, i mean big cams like the ms3 sound sick!!!!
the small cams dont sound as badass as the big ones, but the small ones
seem to keep up.

 

^i read somewhere that you can make a samll cam sound the same as a big one.just gotta lower the idle and pull timing..and i'll chop like a bitch

 

Yea you have to take into account all the other things, some people just get a big cam and think with the bare minimum supporting mods to run it, they are just gonna walk all over everyone cause they got that big ole cam....they soon learn that the car with the properly set smaller cammed car with the stage 2.5 heads, intake, long tubes, stall, DR's, suspension, and tune will embarrass the **** out of them There are some cam only cars that are pretty fast too, don't get me wrong, but a big cam only car isn't automatically going to beat a smaller cammed car just because it has a smaller cam. It's the whole setup you have to look into.

 

scew the sound. Don't smaller cams 224/224s and the like produce more low end torque, and SOTP feeling and get off the line quicker vs the bigger cams which come alive above 5000 rpms?

 

i've seen that too ,but alot big cams can really put it down too. i guess it's all in the combo . weight , tires, stall ,gear ...etc .

 

I will try my best to explain it.

When you look at some of the fastest CAM ONLY cars, you do see they run T-rex's, MSX, or GX series of cams. They make SICK top end power, I would dare say peaky. These cars that run fast times often, if not all are set up for total drag, SUPER light weight and run in good air (i.e. awesome DA).

What some do not realize that when its driven on the street, the cams are soft on the low end. This is compared to STOCK cams!!

GMHTP did a MS4 engine dyno comparision and def the MS4 made ALOT of power but when you saw the over lay, you also see the MAJOR loss on the low end. its not like its making sick power from start to stop. Thats why with a lighter car, geared to the moon allows it to run some of the quickest cam only time because when it does get to the power band, it runs like a freight train.

Now moving on to a "smaller" cam, comparativly.

Due to the cam lobe design and extensive testing, what some engine builders/cam grinders find out that you can run a cam in the 22x to 23x range and make a great balance of power through out the rpm range. This allows a possibly, or more likely a heavier car to get off the line and maintain good power, but they will not peak out as high.

Its the hope is to get out of the hole quick and hope the hard charger cam doesnt beat them up top.

Now when you talk about racing there are MAINLY two types that I see.

1/4 mile dead stop

Roll Races

There is going to be some variability where you must take into account.

Driver exp

Drivetrain

Weight

For example.... you take a guy in a Fbody, M6/10 bolt, not much other work except bolt ons, tune, and a BIG cam at a 1/4 mile race. Facing a 224/224 cammed automatic with a similar boltons and tune. I would put my money on the auto becuase its more consistant and less chance of messing up the launch.

BUT then reverse the rolls and now its a race from a 35 roll. That donkey dick car should walk all over the auto matic.

Now mind you when you just watch 1/4 races Automatics on AVERAGE are generally always better then manual. Unless Evan Smith is in the car its hard to over come it.

Wrapping it up, its hard to compare unless you take the swap the cam out of the SAME car and race it. Even then weather can still factor.

 

couldnt agree with you more bro!! thats something that i have learned from alot of knowledgable guys on this site like predator-z, and patrick g and others. its all about combo and setup. yeah technically the bigger cam should pull on the little cam, but most of the bigger cams dont have all the supporting mods to help that cam run to its potential. for me, i thought bout going with an MS3. but then i dont take the car to the track, nor would i ever go driving around town fast enough to use that cam. so i went with a tad bit smaller cam.

 

It is simple:

It is all about COMBINATION
I run 10's with a small cam (6.0L)
I had a bigger cam in there, but ran 11 flat, the smaller cam is more optimised and my mods support it better than its bigger brother. (only change cam and minor tuning)
Why because eventualy I tailored my cam to the rest of the combo, instead of the other way around.

 

Its the design of the LSx motors....they respond well to small cams...you dont need a big cam to make power

 

Here's another way to look at it. I had a 2006 GTI 2.0T with 200hp. I drove a 2007 Civic SI 200hp and couldn't wait to get back in the Vdub. The Civic made NO power below 6000 rpms, which only comes in handy when you are beating the crap out of it on say a road course where you are WOT most of the time. Everyone thinks they want the big cam because bigger just means better, faster, and bragging rights. Not so in a street car. One thing I will say is that smaller cam cars are going to be traction challenged with the additional low end power. Better have tires and suspension or prepare for the stock cam bolt on car to lay it on you.

 

i have the ms3 now and i can't bash on small cams because i had a 228/222 before i put the ms3 in. its mostly a track car now so thats why i went with a bigger cam but i was happy with my old cam.

 

yea thats what i was thinkin, a good setup wins the race.
but all in all i made this post jus to tell all the lsx guys that bigger dosent
mean better, smaller cams will get the job done to.

 

That's way I went with the 228R. It's not a big cam, but it's not too small eighter. Middle ground.