had enough of low end cam surge
03-10-2008, 06:55 PM
#21
TECH Resident
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: palmharbor/Clearwater,FL
Posts: 979
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ive got no surge on a 236 242 601 610 112 lsa cam on stock 241 castings Its idling quite low and has no surging and or bucking of any kind and it will idle from a cold start with no surge or bucking or staling of any kind. Ur tuner is trying tp pull a fast one!
03-10-2008, 06:58 PM
#23
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can tell you as someone who is doing his own tuning that it takes alot of time to get all of the surge/bucking out of it. I'm sure it would be quicker if it wasn't my first one but it still takes alot of time logging and tweaking. Is your car an A4 or M6? Mine was bucking so bad I couldn't drive it with my foot off the gas. This was with airflow/IAC in line, AFR where it should be, tried timing all over the place, and many hours spent tweaking the "learning" tables. I could make it better but I never could get it to go away completely until I raised the TCC unlock/lock speeds a bit. Now it still surges a little at idle and coming to a stop but no bucking at all while driving at speed.
03-10-2008, 07:17 PM
#25
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hellertown, PA
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and the car is an M6
matt from HSW's told me that he spend almost 2 days trying to tune it and couldn't get it any better than it already was.. he also had 2 mass air flow sensors to work with stock and SLP
i have ls6 intake ported TB lT's no cats
does anyone know of PSI motor sports? its really close to my house but he works on alot fords and boosted cars but his reputation is threw the roof.
also this guy in deleware "fran96SS" from race proven motor sports" keeps trying to get me to come down is he any good? he says he'll make my car 100%
03-10-2008, 08:15 PM
#26
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tuscaloosa, AL.
Posts: 1,251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time is time, and you still should pay them for theirs. If you didn't ask good questions up front to gauge whether or not they could do a good job, then that one is on you. Simply getting in your car and leaving is not a good idea at all...it'd be like accidentally putting 87 octane gas in your car, and driving off without paying because it really wasn't what you wanted.
This is exactly why I've never gone into the tuning business...there are just too many internet experts out there, and too many people that think they should be getting world class service for coach fare. People just don't realize how much up front money is required to have all of the models/licenses available to run a tuning business. There are tons of costs that they need to cover, so don't expect them to react well to you walking out on them without paying.
This is exactly why I've never gone into the tuning business...there are just too many internet experts out there, and too many people that think they should be getting world class service for coach fare. People just don't realize how much up front money is required to have all of the models/licenses available to run a tuning business. There are tons of costs that they need to cover, so don't expect them to react well to you walking out on them without paying.
03-10-2008, 08:22 PM
#27
Staging Lane
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a tr230 111lsa cam and my car drives pretty much stock too. But if I wanted it to chop more, then it probably wouldn't drive pretty much stock. This is what the guy told me who tuned my car and has been doing this for nearly 30 years.
03-10-2008, 08:31 PM
#28
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hellertown, PA
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well i have a torquer v2 112 lsa so urs is kinda close to mine... it drive fine except when i'm cruising with light throttle or deacelleration i think its bullshit really that a tuner couldn't get rid of it. i know it wont drive exactly like stock but there shouldn't be that much drivetrain surge were i can't even put the car in 5th till 60 mph
03-10-2008, 08:40 PM
#29
Staging Lane
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn, do you have stock gears? See what my tuner did is first worked on drive quality meaning tinkering with not WOT conditions. Once he got that done, he then worked on WOT conditions which according to him is a lot easier to do than drive quality. My point is maybe the guy tuning your car just did WOT/idle tuning and failed to adjust for drive quality conditions. Did the bucking change at all from before to after the tune?
03-10-2008, 08:46 PM
#30
11 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah lots of places the basic tune is idle and WOT. A drivability tune takes a good bit of time logging and changing things as you go. Obviously some places are faster than others. Especially if they have tuned a similar combo before. They can upload the tune from the other car and tweak from there.
03-10-2008, 08:50 PM
#33
11 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah but a Torquer 2 isn't really THAT big. Not to the point where 5th gear is unusable till 60mph. He isn't running a 257/266 110 LSA cam like you are =-). I'm gonna ask you again how the **** did you get that thing tuned. And do you have a sound clip?
Last edited by FMX05; 03-10-2008 at 09:23 PM.
03-10-2008, 08:57 PM
#35
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hellertown, PA
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn, do you have stock gears? See what my tuner did is first worked on drive quality meaning tinkering with not WOT conditions. Once he got that done, he then worked on WOT conditions which according to him is a lot easier to do than drive quality. My point is maybe the guy tuning your car just did WOT/idle tuning and failed to adjust for drive quality conditions. Did the bucking change at all from before to after the tune?
03-10-2008, 08:58 PM
#36
TECH Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hellertown, PA
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah i didn't think a T2 was that big either were it couldn't be tuned out above 2k rpm its fine but below that... it just wants to start acting up and once it starts with an M6 it doesn't stop and sometimes when i give it gas it gets really bad to the point were i have to put in the clutch
03-10-2008, 09:14 PM
#37
TECH Resident
iTrader: (28)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: norcal
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.my car has around 150 miles on the new motor so far still breaking it in.
here is a the sound clip from when i did the first start.
insnt the torquer2 in the 230's...thats considered extreme on the how to site.
also i ran the t-rex and g5x3 when i had the stock motor and there was still a lil bucking and surging bigger cams do not like low rpm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/f...tte_142775.htm
03-10-2008, 09:20 PM
#38
there should be next to no bucking. I went through this on my old car (differant eng. but similar grind) below 2000-2500 rpm at a constant cruise it would buck so bad you had to either raise the rpms way up or push in the clutch. there are people who have much more wilder cams that run fine. I never got it just right but I messed with just about every table and it seemed like the more basic I made the tables the better it got. kind of a detune type of style... but I really don't know how to tune as I won't claim to I just know it was at least drivable towards the end when I didn't have intake leaks
03-10-2008, 09:21 PM
#39
Staging Lane
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hear ya, my car was pretty much just like you are describing even after I did some tunining and got the RAFIG and AFR mostly on. I spent a lot of time tuning and while it was getting better, I just couldn't get it quite right. This was with a 232/240 112 stick in a m6 car with 4.1 gears and about ~2800lb weight.
I decided to pick up some ported heads and a 224/228 110 cam to swap in. Working with a shop I'm sure we could have gotten it better with the bigger cam, but I won't let anyone work on my car, so that is out for me. I'm sure its just a matter of finding the right tuner that will take his time on it and get it right.
I decided to pick up some ported heads and a 224/228 110 cam to swap in. Working with a shop I'm sure we could have gotten it better with the bigger cam, but I won't let anyone work on my car, so that is out for me. I'm sure its just a matter of finding the right tuner that will take his time on it and get it right.
03-10-2008, 09:32 PM
#40
11 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my tuner will not be having fun when it comes time to dyno tune lets leave it at that.
my car has around 150 miles on the new motor so far still breaking it in.
here is a the sound clip from when i did the first start.
insnt the torquer2 in the 230's...thats considered extreme on the how to site.
also i ran the t-rex and g5x3 when i had the stock motor and there was still a lil bucking and surging bigger cams do not like low rpm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/f...tte_142775.htm
.my car has around 150 miles on the new motor so far still breaking it in.
here is a the sound clip from when i did the first start.
insnt the torquer2 in the 230's...thats considered extreme on the how to site.
also i ran the t-rex and g5x3 when i had the stock motor and there was still a lil bucking and surging bigger cams do not like low rpm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/f...tte_142775.htm
The G5x3 and the Trex you had are bigger than the torquer 2. This is straight off Texas speed's site.
Originally Posted by Texas Speed
The Texas Speed Torquer 2 232/234 .595/.598 Camshaft With Your Choice of Lobe Seperation.
This camshaft features Comp Cams XER lobes! The XER lobes have been proven to make big horsepower & torque thanks to their aggressive ramp rates & healthy lift.
1800-6400 RPM Power Band; This is an excellent performance camshaft with a smooth idle! Custom tuning for automatic cars required
This camshaft typically gains approximately 45-50rwhp!
This camshaft features Comp Cams XER lobes! The XER lobes have been proven to make big horsepower & torque thanks to their aggressive ramp rates & healthy lift.
1800-6400 RPM Power Band; This is an excellent performance camshaft with a smooth idle! Custom tuning for automatic cars required
This camshaft typically gains approximately 45-50rwhp!