View Poll Results: Which one?
Stroke.
39
37.14%
All bore.
17
16.19%
Head/cam.
49
46.67%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll
Stroker vs. All Bore vs. Head/Cam
03-27-2008, 09:36 AM
#21
Well as a matter of fact the car's both had 4.10's and were both M6's. The big bore had a smaller TR 230/224 cam, the stroker had a 232/232 112 lsa cam. The heads were ported LS1's that flow about the same. And the stroker had a better TPIS modified intake and larger TB , where the big bore used a stock LS6 intake and stock ported TB. Plus the stroker was dyno tuned and the big bore wasn't. You're right i wasn't comparing apples to apples, the stroker used better power mods and tuning and still wasn't as strong as the big bore. And both motors were built by the same person. Plus it doesn't matter what the engine was made for bottom line the big bore has a better bore to stroke ratio and the bore motor doesn't have to worry about the rods angles that side load the piston like a stroker does. Big bore motors will rev faster and higher than a stroker with roughly the same cubes and parts period.
03-27-2008, 09:39 AM
#22
Well as a matter of fact the car's both had 4.10's and were both M6's. The big bore had a smaller TR 230/224 cam, the stroker had a 232/232 112 lsa cam. The heads were ported LS1's that flow about the same. And the stroker had a better TPIS modified intake and larger TB , where the big bore used a stock LS6 intake and stock ported TB. Plus the stroker was dyno tuned and the big bore wasn't. You're right i wasn't comparing apples to apples, the stroker used better power mods and tuning and still wasn't as strong as the big bore. And both motors were built by the same person. Plus it doesn't matter what the engine was made for bottom line the big bore has a better bore to stroke ratio and the bore motor doesn't have to worry about the rods angles that side load the piston like a stroker does. Big bore motors will rev faster and higher than a stroker with roughly the same cubes and parts period.
03-27-2008, 09:53 AM
#23
My take on it is: If you look at an LT1 or any 350cid chevy small block the stroke is 3.45 inches and the bore is 4.00 inches. The difference is .55. All i did was subtract the bore from the stroke. With a stock LS1 the bore is 3.898 and the stroke is 3.622. That's a difference of only .276. Now the Big Bore 387cid LS1 moves the bore to stroke ratio closer to the tried and true 350 chevy. The 387 with it's 4.125 bore and 3.622 stroke is a difference of .503. To me i like that ratio much better than a LS1 383 that's has a bigger stroke than bore. I know most people with argue that cubic inches is cubic inches. True. But if there is a more efficient way of adding cubes that's what i want my money spent, even if it's alittle more than the stroker. I've personally been in both a LS1 383 stroker and a 382 all bore. And this was when all bores were a new idea. The big bore motor was sick. It revved instantly and had awesome torque thru the whole rpm range. In the stroker the motor revved slow and it didn't feel anywhere near as sick as the bore motor.
GM already gave us the stroke, just adding the bore is what it needed. The Ls1 is a mini-stroker from the factory.
GM already gave us the stroke, just adding the bore is what it needed. The Ls1 is a mini-stroker from the factory.
(4.097/2)^2 x 3.1416 x 3.622 x 8 = 381.99
If I'm not mistaken, you can't bore an LS1 block that large, so you either need another block or sleeves, plus the pistons & rings, machine work, etc. I don't see the merit of the effciency of money spent argument here. Especially when compared to the cost of heads/cam/bolt-ons which would be much easier and more cost effective, IMO. Since more cubes needs more air to work, you'll still need the heads and cam to complete the package. Looks like we can achieve roughly 80% the results of either bore or stroker at 50% cost of a h/c combo.
Yes, I'm dodging the cubes is cubes argument too, and so long as the small bore isn't a huge encumberance to airflow (read shrouded valves), output would be rather similar.
Originally Posted by david vericker
You forgot to mention if the all bore 382 vs stroker 383 had the same gear...same cam and heads...same tranny...if not then you weren't comparing apples to apples. Theres a lot more involved in the performance of a motor than just the bore vs the stroke.
Last edited by hammertime; 03-27-2008 at 09:56 AM. Reason: edit - point was addressed while i typed, but what was the compression and ICL on each?
03-27-2008, 10:08 AM
#24
That's right you can't, that's why i said it's more money in a bore motor cause u have to re-sleeve the block.
And it's not an "excellent point" i stated the stroker used more/better intake and cam.
The extreme rod angle a stroker motor causes side loading of the piston.
The rod has to move more distance due to more stroke. How do you think it gets more stroke it does it by the crank swinging more to move the piston further down the bore. But on a strickly personal note, and ONLY my opinion, i hate a stroke that's bigger than the bore. When GM wanted more cubes in the LS2 they didn't add stroke, they added bore, despite the fact the LS2 intake isn't that great the engine gained 50 hp. I drove a 6.0 GTO and a LS1 GTO and the 6.0 revved faster and smoother. But you are all entitled to your opinion. I'm just giving my opinion and what i witnessed personally.
I just wanted to add they were throwing parts( TPIS intake, 90mm TB) to get it to perform like the 382 bore motor. The 382 bore idea was new at the time and the head wouldn't seal, so it was loosing alittle coolant and most likely alittle compression and the bore motor was insane only tuned with a MAFT. My experience with a big stroke LS1 wasn't that impressive to say the least. But maybe the setup was off, i'm not sure. I bought a new Eagle 4" crank, Eagle 6.1" rods to build my 383 until a guy i knew built his first and he struggled with it. That changed my mine for ever. I would stroke a motor but i will add bore as well
And it's not an "excellent point" i stated the stroker used more/better intake and cam.
The extreme rod angle a stroker motor causes side loading of the piston.
The rod has to move more distance due to more stroke. How do you think it gets more stroke it does it by the crank swinging more to move the piston further down the bore. But on a strickly personal note, and ONLY my opinion, i hate a stroke that's bigger than the bore. When GM wanted more cubes in the LS2 they didn't add stroke, they added bore, despite the fact the LS2 intake isn't that great the engine gained 50 hp. I drove a 6.0 GTO and a LS1 GTO and the 6.0 revved faster and smoother. But you are all entitled to your opinion. I'm just giving my opinion and what i witnessed personally.
I just wanted to add they were throwing parts( TPIS intake, 90mm TB) to get it to perform like the 382 bore motor. The 382 bore idea was new at the time and the head wouldn't seal, so it was loosing alittle coolant and most likely alittle compression and the bore motor was insane only tuned with a MAFT. My experience with a big stroke LS1 wasn't that impressive to say the least. But maybe the setup was off, i'm not sure. I bought a new Eagle 4" crank, Eagle 6.1" rods to build my 383 until a guy i knew built his first and he struggled with it. That changed my mine for ever. I would stroke a motor but i will add bore as well
Last edited by BlackNiteWS6; 03-27-2008 at 10:31 AM.
03-27-2008, 03:37 PM
#25
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Well as a matter of fact the car's both had 4.10's and were both M6's. The big bore had a smaller TR 230/224 cam, the stroker had a 232/232 112 lsa cam. The heads were ported LS1's that flow about the same. And the stroker had a better TPIS modified intake and larger TB , where the big bore used a stock LS6 intake and stock ported TB. Plus the stroker was dyno tuned and the big bore wasn't. You're right i wasn't comparing apples to apples, the stroker used better power mods and tuning and still wasn't as strong as the big bore. And both motors were built by the same person. Plus it doesn't matter what the engine was made for bottom line the big bore has a better bore to stroke ratio and the bore motor doesn't have to worry about the rods angles that side load the piston like a stroker does. Big bore motors will rev faster and higher than a stroker with roughly the same cubes and parts period.
03-28-2008, 12:15 PM
#26
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yea i was in the same spot in trying to decide what to do. im going with the 6.0 408 stroker iron blockwith all forged internals and a set of prc heads what size cam would really make this motor come to life?
03-29-2008, 07:54 PM
#27
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Yeah, I am EVENTUALLY going to go with a 427 stroker, but as for now, I'm just going to go with the heads/cam.
As for the cam, ask Patrick G. He can spec. you out one.
As for the cam, ask Patrick G. He can spec. you out one.
04-02-2008, 04:50 AM
#28
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Well as a matter of fact the car's both had 4.10's and were both M6's. The big bore had a smaller TR 230/224 cam, the stroker had a 232/232 112 lsa cam. The heads were ported LS1's that flow about the same. And the stroker had a better TPIS modified intake and larger TB , where the big bore used a stock LS6 intake and stock ported TB. Plus the stroker was dyno tuned and the big bore wasn't. You're right i wasn't comparing apples to apples, the stroker used better power mods and tuning and still wasn't as strong as the big bore. And both motors were built by the same person. Plus it doesn't matter what the engine was made for bottom line the big bore has a better bore to stroke ratio and the bore motor doesn't have to worry about the rods angles that side load the piston like a stroker does. Big bore motors will rev faster and higher than a stroker with roughly the same cubes and parts period.
04-02-2008, 05:00 AM
#29
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That's right you can't, that's why i said it's more money in a bore motor cause u have to re-sleeve the block.
And it's not an "excellent point" i stated the stroker used more/better intake and cam.
The extreme rod angle a stroker motor causes side loading of the piston.
The rod has to move more distance due to more stroke. How do you think it gets more stroke it does it by the crank swinging more to move the piston further down the bore. But on a strickly personal note, and ONLY my opinion, i hate a stroke that's bigger than the bore. When GM wanted more cubes in the LS2 they didn't add stroke, they added bore, despite the fact the LS2 intake isn't that great the engine gained 50 hp. I drove a 6.0 GTO and a LS1 GTO and the 6.0 revved faster and smoother. But you are all entitled to your opinion. I'm just giving my opinion and what i witnessed personally.
I just wanted to add they were throwing parts( TPIS intake, 90mm TB) to get it to perform like the 382 bore motor. The 382 bore idea was new at the time and the head wouldn't seal, so it was loosing alittle coolant and most likely alittle compression and the bore motor was insane only tuned with a MAFT. My experience with a big stroke LS1 wasn't that impressive to say the least. But maybe the setup was off, i'm not sure. I bought a new Eagle 4" crank, Eagle 6.1" rods to build my 383 until a guy i knew built his first and he struggled with it. That changed my mine for ever. I would stroke a motor but i will add bore as well
And it's not an "excellent point" i stated the stroker used more/better intake and cam.
The extreme rod angle a stroker motor causes side loading of the piston.
The rod has to move more distance due to more stroke. How do you think it gets more stroke it does it by the crank swinging more to move the piston further down the bore. But on a strickly personal note, and ONLY my opinion, i hate a stroke that's bigger than the bore. When GM wanted more cubes in the LS2 they didn't add stroke, they added bore, despite the fact the LS2 intake isn't that great the engine gained 50 hp. I drove a 6.0 GTO and a LS1 GTO and the 6.0 revved faster and smoother. But you are all entitled to your opinion. I'm just giving my opinion and what i witnessed personally.
I just wanted to add they were throwing parts( TPIS intake, 90mm TB) to get it to perform like the 382 bore motor. The 382 bore idea was new at the time and the head wouldn't seal, so it was loosing alittle coolant and most likely alittle compression and the bore motor was insane only tuned with a MAFT. My experience with a big stroke LS1 wasn't that impressive to say the least. But maybe the setup was off, i'm not sure. I bought a new Eagle 4" crank, Eagle 6.1" rods to build my 383 until a guy i knew built his first and he struggled with it. That changed my mine for ever. I would stroke a motor but i will add bore as well
04-02-2008, 05:38 AM
#30
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how far do you bore it for a 382 all bore? Ive heard all kinds of things. Can you use the stock sleeves? Who makes the pistons for that? You can use the stock crank then right?
04-03-2008, 06:56 PM
#31
You need to re-sleeve the stock block or go with LSX or LS7 block. You're write i shouldn't let the few strokers i seen sway my opinion, but it does. The 387 big bore motors i seen made insane power. I'm sure it's all in the setup. Another reason i'm not keen on strokers...i street raced a 408 with a YSi Vortech/aftercooler. And with my small setup and a 125 shot i beat this camaro z28. Just by the size of the motors i know there's got to be good running strokers, but my money will go to a big bore or i'll go to a 427. The only way that i'm going stroke is to add bore to it. I rather just run a 347cid forged motor before i ever run a all stroke motor.
04-04-2008, 04:20 PM
#32
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Remember, HP is a function of torque and RPM. If the motor isn't valvetrain limited as to how high it can wind, and assuming the the intake and such can support the higher RPMs, whichever motor can wind higher has the potential to have the higest peak HP numbers all else being equal.
HP = (Torque*RPM)/5252
This also means that no engine, no matter the setup can have more torque than HP at or above 5252 RPM. Interesting stuff.
HP = (Torque*RPM)/5252
This also means that no engine, no matter the setup can have more torque than HP at or above 5252 RPM. Interesting stuff.
04-17-2008, 09:47 AM
#35
Definately....adding the bore to the LS1 is a great option, in my opinion. Only down side
is a LS7, LSX, or re-sleeved block. But even the price is dropping on those anyway.
I was sold when my buddy Tom built his all bore motor. And it's a shame the motor
didn't work out. But all bore was a new idea in 2000 or 2001. He used L.A. sleeves instead of Darton. Cartek has done some killer big bore cars. And MTI as well.
I like the idea of a 427cid like you stated, having the best of both worlds.
is a LS7, LSX, or re-sleeved block. But even the price is dropping on those anyway.
I was sold when my buddy Tom built his all bore motor. And it's a shame the motor
didn't work out. But all bore was a new idea in 2000 or 2001. He used L.A. sleeves instead of Darton. Cartek has done some killer big bore cars. And MTI as well.
I like the idea of a 427cid like you stated, having the best of both worlds.
05-27-2008, 03:52 AM
#39
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Well if I do the stroker, it's going to take bigger than 205's to feed it. I'm not sure what my budget is going to be yet, depends on how wild I decide to get I suppose. Not going to happen tomorrow or anything, just figuring out which direction I'm going to go before I spend any money. I still have to get headers and an intake, but this will decide which ones I go with.
