gomer

iTrader: (13)

My patriots were hand blended to clean up the CNC marks in the bowl, combustion chamber and exhaust port... did I get a "special" set?

Hannibal

Nope

And who really cares about 10-15 RWHP on a dyno? I am not a dyno queen ....... ET is where it matters and is why you bought the heads in the first place. And if I am a tenth or two behind some of the guy running GTP's or some other set of "more expensive" heads - then so be it. I still only spent $1200 compared to $2500+. So unless other "more expensive" brands are putting down MORE than TWICE the RWHP than these Patriots are making - its STILL a GOOD deal anyway you look at it. If they hang with some of the big boys - then I guess the GAMBLE paid off. I can tell you from SOTP test done so far - that even without tuning - my car is putting down some power and will put up some good ET's.

Bottom line is I and others took a chance on a new product for a price that couldnt be passed up. If it nets out that I am running about 10-15 RWHP below other brands - I guess I better learn to shift a little faster or use some of the $$$$ I saved on suspension work and cut better short times.

TVWilkes

Sure our heads cost less than others.IMO,the quality of this head is as good as any stage 2 head you can buy,REGARDLESS OF PRICE.Flowbenches are different from each other,so are Dyno's.When a product has been introduced to the market it takes some time to prove itself.My goal is to offer the best head that I can produce.I am not competing in a certain price range.We buy parts in massive bulk to pass on the savings to the consumer.I have currently 4000 (NEW) LS6/LQ9 heads.

FYI,all of the heads are hand blended after the CNC porting is performed.There is no need to remove tthe tool marks.

PacerX

iTrader: (4)

This is an undecked head.

I'm very impressed, especially with the fact that undecked with Macs and through an A4 it put down this kind of power.

I also didn't see a listing of the supporting mods that would help out (ported/bigger MAF, ported throttle body, exhaust cut-out, bellows, etc...), which would make it even more impressive.

Tack on some more compression and throw on those mods and the potential is there for the "dyno-queen" type numbers.

Very, very impressive in my view.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Completely stock MAF, & Throttle body. The car has mac headers with no cats & borla catback.

He can add
ASP Pulley
Water Pump
Cutout
Ported TB
85mm MAF & Lid

PacerX

iTrader: (4)

Pfffft....

I don't mean to be the "ricer dyno guesser" of the group, but there's an easy 25 ponies sitting right there in el cheapo mods.

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

I was personally pleased with the results from the new cam and Patriot stage II cylinder heads. The car picked up 54 RWHP over the SLP camshaft, and he isn't finished with the mods. My SS does 385 RWHP unlocked with MTI stage II 5.3L heads and our 231/237 camshaft, and I already have an underdrive pulley, ported throttle body, ported MAF, etc. My car has run 11.30's N/A with 1,100' D.A. We have a GTP-headed car here right now that did 400 RWHP through an M6 with the "Piglet" camshaft (226/226, .591"/.591", 112 LSA), and we installed a set of TEA stage 1.5's in June on a '01 C5 that put down 413 RWHP. It was still running through the stock C5 cat-back and had a 224/224 cam. The Patriot stage II heads are making great power. 382 RWHP through an unlocked converter is very good, especially when you consider all of the power that was left on the table. We will have the TSP Project Z doing 430+ RWHP through a locked converter with Patriot stage II heads. The difference is all of the extra mods and steps we take. We'll run 11:1 or more compression vs. this car that had just under 10.5:1, we'll have the ASP crank pulley, ported MAF and throttle body, long tubes, etc. The majority of the guys and girls buying heads/cam packages are not looking for every last bit of horsepower. They normally bring in their daily driver that they want more power out of. It's way too easy to get wrapped up in peak dyno numbers. All you see are peak dyno and flow numbers thrown around on the internet, but in the end that only gives you half of the equation. How's the usable power? I don't drop below 5,200 RPM on the shifts, so I'm not concerned with power at 4,500 RPM. It's the usable power that will make the car quicker. 54 RWHP is a nice gain over what he cam in with. Yes, we would love to have an M6-equipped car to dyno with the Patriot stage II heads and bigger camshaft so we can show the true potential of the heads. Our project car will certainly show the potential; it's just going to be through an A4.

This is just the beginning for results. Besides having results from the Project Z, we're also going to try a set of the upcoming Patriot stage III heads on the 408 cid solid-roller being built for the SS. We have shipped out a LOT of Patriot stage II cylinder heads in the past six weeks, so results will start rolling in shortly.

Let us know if we can answer any other questions.

Thanks!

Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance

PacerX

iTrader: (4)

"Yes, we would love to have an M6-equipped car to dyno with the Patriot stage II heads and bigger camshaft so we can show the true potential of the heads. Our project car will certainly show the potential; it's just going to be through an A4."

Please send a free set to me, I'll be happy to install them and let you know how they do.

ne14a6t9

I dont care how different dynos and flow benches are a 232 cam should not fall off at 6k rpm's unless the heads cant support it and it looks like the heads cant support it, shaving the heads will maybe make another 2 hp, if you think its any more than that I have a bridge I can sell you cheap.
Hannabal, What kind of drugs are you on, who cares about 10-15 less rwhp, Ill tell you I do, guys are putting on absolute speed heads for 1350 just 150 more and putting down 431 with 224 cams and 421 through auto's and your going to tell me I should be impressed with 380 and 355 torque with a 232 cam.
Trevor, I know Im a little harsh but you came onto this market and in no time became very inovative and talented vendor, that is hard to do in this market there was alot others that failed and you have gained my respect seeing your cam make 15 more rwhp over a c2 cam, but you cant expect serious consumers to take you seriously when you put up a graph like that and speculate how much more it could make if it had this and that, I am biassed toward gtp becuase evry one of there cars runn outstanding numbers, maybe try another set of gtp,s with one of your cams to see the full potential of your engines and cam packages, then offer the patriots as an economical package, if you look at lou at lg he uses gtp and and absolute speed's becuase they make the power and make his cam package look good
Patriot, I have not counted you out yet putting out a good product, but so far I have seen 2 results that are not good and hear about valves that have to be replaced in all your heads, hopfully you have worked out all the bugs and can produce some dynos that are competitve with others on the market

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

Don't worry, we'll have dyno-queen numbers soon enough. As soon as we ***** out the dyno with a few more miles, it will be more on par to everyone else's numbers.

00z

dont get me wrong i am really looking inot getting this package but..... whats the deal with the spike and drops in the torque curves? what is the cause of that?

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

Oh great another expert

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

Thats from the torque converter flashing, it had a vig 3200 converter I think.

Hannibal

My point being is that I am not, nor have I ever been a "dyno queen." I could care less if I put down 10-15 RWHP less than the car infront of me with the more "extavagent heads." I have seen it happen over and over again - that the guy hyping up his bigger dyno numbers gets his **** handed to him repeatidly by the "weaker" car. 10-15 RWHP can be made up for EASILY. Drop some weight, work on suspension, OUT DRIVE the guy next to you - there are many options to make up that difference. Its not like I am trying to set a record or anything - I am not looking for the highest HP numbers out of a H/C LS1 or lowest ET. My car is basically full weight with stock suspension. I just wanted some more power that would enable my car to haul *** on the street and down the 1/4 mile for the occasional pass. SOTP test says that will happen.

Right now there are way too many "what if's" floating out there with the cars that have hit the dyno. Yeah, you had Gomer put down 385 RWHP - but he is also very limited in his mods and has ALOT of room to improve. I mean hell, I dont even think he has headers - how much air you think you can pass through a motor and the heads when you are cutout off by stock manifolds? I myself dont expect to see 430-440 RWHP anyhow. I will be a perfect example of the "dyno hype" - I will get dyno-tuned while running on 17" chrome 10-spokes with Nitto's (heavy), sporting a heavy duty McCleod twin disc clutch and steel flywheel - all through a 12-bolt w/ 4.30 gears. My drivetrain will SUCK UP RWHP on a dyno - but do you think that will mean I am any slower at the track? Say I put down 420 RWHP - do you not think I will smack the H/C car putting down 430-435 RWHP while running through his 10-bolt w/ 3.42's? I know its a stretched example - but do you not see the point? When making comparisons - make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

So as to not seem that I am jumping on the Patriot bandwagon cause I have a set of their heads on my car now - I will admit I am still up in the air on all this - still waiting to see some BIG numbers - but no one here has yet to dyno (and post) a car that went from a complete bolt-on to H/C car. I am sure we will see some soon. There is just too much speculation and criticism for something that has limited exposure and hasnt had the chance to prove itself.

I will just wait til I see a similar setup before I start questioning my decision. I maybe able to hop on as early as this Saturday.

gomer

iTrader: (13)

Just to clarify Hannibal's post.. ALL my mods are in the sig, so I do have headers. But I made 403rwhp and 384rwtq.

Hannibal

My bad

Moose

iTrader: (5)

Lets see some track # out of the cars..

I think Hannibal is going to get around 420 hp..

Hell my car only made 430 RWHP with my big cam and stage 2 heads from GTP..

But a dyno, is a dyno. It considered a tool to "tune" your car. Not to show who has the baddest ride out there.

My times speak for them self.

Now, would I buy a set of Patriot heads if they are 1000$ less then GTP or MTI. Maybe.. I'm the type that buys everything for there car, makes it work.

The Patriot heads are a good head and are bringing compitition to the LS1 market. 2400$ for aset of heads is a lot.. Patriot is half that.

jfm

iTrader: (4)

TSP,please we dont need a "dyno queen" number.There are still a few quality shops that will never do that because as it was put to me you end up with car "A" that dynos 25 to 30 hp more than car "B" but runs the same ET.

Patriot is attempting to do what I thought TEA would do,that is corner a large share of the market.In reality this should lower the cost of some "high dollar" heads and make others make a better head than Patriot for a few bucks more.In my opinion,and opinions are like ********,everybody has one,it comes down to what the consumer demands.

I know damn well that an extra 10/15 hp for $150/$200 is well worth it and it seems that some [Absolute,JPR]offer that now.I would like to know why we dont see a small volume,high speed chamber with great low,mid and high lifts out of a cnc head,all the cnc ports I have seen are large chamber.

Trevor at TSP,Allan at Futral,Paul and Geoff at TR,Lou at LG,Jay at Absolute Speed,Joe at JPR,I have to thank all for the time and input you gave me.

TVWilkes

I would like to say that no where has there been a comparison showing that higher priced heads are better than the PATRIOT (HEAD TO HEAD).I would love for someone to have a real world test between all of the heads.Then everyone could see the real difference between the heads.I believe that we have a product that will be competitive.I have flow tested on my bench many of the big dog heads.On my bench the Patriot head is as good as every head that I have tested .(REGARDLESS OF PRICE).It has been perceived from the beginning that because the heads are cheaper that they are not up to par with everyone else.The flow numbers that I advertise is what I have seen on my (superflow 1020).My bench is conservative compared to others.What I want people to believe is that I speak real world.My yes's are a yes and my no's are a no.If you research back you will see that every time a new player comes to the scene its always believed to be weaker than the current models.Over time they gain the respect they deserve.I this time we are experiencing the same thing.I have worked long hours on the development of this head,I will continue to make it better.My goal is to produce the best head possible (REGARDLESS OF PRICE).Over time it will be proven that we offer a very good product for an unbelievable price.

In regards to the chamber size.Ported (STAGE 2)the heads are 213cc on the Intake , 78 cc on the exhaust.The 5.3 heads come machined with a 61 cc chamber (NOT MILLED).Thanks for your time.

1ScrudeDude

I am stoked from what I can see. With my '98 Z M6 with Wide Open Borla, FTRA, LS1 Airlid, MAC Headers and an ORY, I hope to crack 400. I am going with the Patriot Stage II H/C package and will throw in an ASP crank pulley.

You guys at Texas Speed, I will be calling you. I get a raise in October, and I know where I've already spent it. 'Talk to you soon, really.