Quick rod bolt question for you engine builders
Quick rod bolt question for you engine builders I recently finished building a new motor with mods in sig. The motor is in the car and waiting for the trans install and should be firing up for the first time this coming weekend. However, I've got a concern that I need a second opinion on. I called Texas Speed and was assured by them that I would be okay which made me feel better but I just needed a little more assurance on this before I fire this thing up. It's got Eagle H-Beam rods with ARP 2000 rod bolts in it. When I installed the rods I had been researching on how to install them and was aware that I needed to torque and re-torque them using the ARP assembly lube to get the correct torque. I did not have a stretch gauge to measure clamping force that way. So when I installed them I torqued them, then loosened them, then re-torqued them to spec, which I believe was 72lb/ft.
Well my concern is that I was on ARP's website and they recommend doing the torquing/re-torquing sequence 5 times to get proper stretch. I did not do this 5 times. I was not aware that I needed to...
Now, the motor is back in the car and ready to go. Fluids are filled and everything. Do I pull the motor back out of the car just to torque and re-torque the bolts a few more times or should I be okay to get this thing under way? As I stated, I called TSP and was told that I'd be okay. I am not discrediting them, I just want some more opinions for sound mind.
Pulling the motor again would indeed be a major PITA but I would do it if need be.
Thanks for the advice guys in advance.
Well my concern is that I was on ARP's website and they recommend doing the torquing/re-torquing sequence 5 times to get proper stretch. I did not do this 5 times. I was not aware that I needed to...
Now, the motor is back in the car and ready to go. Fluids are filled and everything. Do I pull the motor back out of the car just to torque and re-torque the bolts a few more times or should I be okay to get this thing under way? As I stated, I called TSP and was told that I'd be okay. I am not discrediting them, I just want some more opinions for sound mind.
Pulling the motor again would indeed be a major PITA but I would do it if need be.
Thanks for the advice guys in advance.
Thanks for the response man. That seems to be the general consensus from everyone I talk to. My stance is just that for the money I've dropped into this build, I have no reservations pulling the motor and correcting the problem if there is one, ya know?
Better that than to be pulling the motor here in a few months to correct a knock or even worse spun bearing.
I'm most worried about having the rod bolts stretch out and make my bearing clearances off of where they should be.... bad news real quick. And the motor will be turning about 6500 RPM with the H/C setup I've got. Rev limiter is set at 6800 so I should be shifting a few hundred before that.
I'm still open to comments from some of the sponsors maybe as well! Like I said, I'll be starting this thing up for the first time this weekend so time is kinda crunched.
Thanks!
Better that than to be pulling the motor here in a few months to correct a knock or even worse spun bearing.
I'm most worried about having the rod bolts stretch out and make my bearing clearances off of where they should be.... bad news real quick. And the motor will be turning about 6500 RPM with the H/C setup I've got. Rev limiter is set at 6800 so I should be shifting a few hundred before that.
I'm still open to comments from some of the sponsors maybe as well! Like I said, I'll be starting this thing up for the first time this weekend so time is kinda crunched.
Thanks!
Can't answer your original question. But I can say that your combo will want more RPM than that. I've got an identical setup and it makes power clear to 7000. You'll probably want to set the limiter at 7200, with shiftpoints in the 6800-7000 range.
I sent it to Texas Speed to have them tune it and this is the limiter that they recommend. I thought it made power a lot higher than that too, but that's what they set it at. And it's their setup so I figured they knew best. We'll see how it does on the dyno. I'll look at the graph and see if it's still making power when it shifts. If it is then I'll have him bump it out a little. Thanks for the input though man.
Trending Topics
Also, can I ask what power yours does make? I'd like to have something to compare to. From the looks of it I should be in the 420-440 range.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
TSP builds a lot of motors. If they say it will be OK, I would trust them.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Thanks again for the reply!
I also found this interesting...
I was reading back through the instructions that came with the Eagle rods and ARP 2000's to see if I missed something and it never instructed to torque and then re-torque the bolts. It simply said to use ARP assembly lube and torque to 75ft/lbs, both of which I did. What I found interesting was this: On the back of the sheet it had a chart that you needed to fill out during disassembly and rebuilds. You are instructed to measure the bolt unloaded and if it varies more than .001" from its original size then it says that you need to replace the bolt if it does vary this much. Every time you torque and untorque the bolt you stretch it a little more and it gets closer to being unusable. After reading this I'm not sure why you'd want to continually stretch it and unstretch it 5 times. The sheet left a total of 5 slots for recording measurements. I found that interesting.
I was reading back through the instructions that came with the Eagle rods and ARP 2000's to see if I missed something and it never instructed to torque and then re-torque the bolts. It simply said to use ARP assembly lube and torque to 75ft/lbs, both of which I did. What I found interesting was this: On the back of the sheet it had a chart that you needed to fill out during disassembly and rebuilds. You are instructed to measure the bolt unloaded and if it varies more than .001" from its original size then it says that you need to replace the bolt if it does vary this much. Every time you torque and untorque the bolt you stretch it a little more and it gets closer to being unusable. After reading this I'm not sure why you'd want to continually stretch it and unstretch it 5 times. The sheet left a total of 5 slots for recording measurements. I found that interesting.
I torqued and loosened twice, then gave it the final torque. I used the assembly lube that came with the bolts. I rev mine out to 6600. No problems and I can confidently say that you won't have any either.
Thanks again guys for curbing my fears a little, I appreciate it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/935192-prc-heads-ms4-fast-92-results.html
My ARP bolts came with a little instruction sheet stating that a bolt stretch gauge is the preferred method, but you can torque and loosen the bolts several times to achieve the desired stretch. IIRC it was 3 or 5 times, and the torque value was not as high as you posted earlier.
I must have had a different sheet than you then. And mine came from Eagle, not ARP. My rod bolts were already installed in the rod and torqued down when I received them. I didn't just buy the bolts by themselves. I also have the 7/16" ARP 2000 bolts which specifically state on the sheet to torque to 75ft. lbs.
I'm almost wondering if they were torqued to spec before they left Eagle because these things were on very, very tight. I ended up having the engine builder who balanced my assembly remove them because I couldn't get them being that they weren't attached to anything.
I'm almost wondering if they were torqued to spec before they left Eagle because these things were on very, very tight. I ended up having the engine builder who balanced my assembly remove them because I couldn't get them being that they weren't attached to anything.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
New guy here... I just registered too try and help a bit with this thread; I am new too lsx engines but I have been building serious engines for many years.
Some of you guys have a misunderstanding of what the torque/loosen/retorque is all about.
You do not torque and loosen then retorque bolts too "stretch" the bolt, the torque/loosen/retorque sequence is too properly burnish or match the threads between the bolts/rods too try and ensure that you get close too the specified stretch at the specified torque.
As you go through this torque/loosen sequence the threads between the rod and bolt burnish together and become "matched" too each other, The closer they are matched the less friction there will be bewteen the two. This allows the bolt too reach the proper stretch at the prescribed torque as less of the torque is eaten up simply overcoming the friction.
Rod bolts should never show longer than their original unloaded length once the clamping load has been relived, if they do they have been taken past their yield and are then scrap.
Rod bolts do not stretch a little bit more every time you retorque them, they should always return too the original length when unloaded.
Another usefull bit of info... In my years of stretching bolts I have found that they pretty much NEVER reach the prescribed amount of stretch with the suggested torque. The torque needed to achieve the desired stretch in my experience is normally quite a bit higher than suggested even when you properly burnish the threads and use the correct assembly lube.
Some of you guys have a misunderstanding of what the torque/loosen/retorque is all about.
You do not torque and loosen then retorque bolts too "stretch" the bolt, the torque/loosen/retorque sequence is too properly burnish or match the threads between the bolts/rods too try and ensure that you get close too the specified stretch at the specified torque.
As you go through this torque/loosen sequence the threads between the rod and bolt burnish together and become "matched" too each other, The closer they are matched the less friction there will be bewteen the two. This allows the bolt too reach the proper stretch at the prescribed torque as less of the torque is eaten up simply overcoming the friction.
Rod bolts should never show longer than their original unloaded length once the clamping load has been relived, if they do they have been taken past their yield and are then scrap.
Rod bolts do not stretch a little bit more every time you retorque them, they should always return too the original length when unloaded.
Another usefull bit of info... In my years of stretching bolts I have found that they pretty much NEVER reach the prescribed amount of stretch with the suggested torque. The torque needed to achieve the desired stretch in my experience is normally quite a bit higher than suggested even when you properly burnish the threads and use the correct assembly lube.
New guy here... I just registered too try and help a bit with this thread; I am new too lsx engines but I have been building serious engines for many years.
Some of you guys have a misunderstanding of what the torque/loosen/retorque is all about.
You do not torque and loosen then retorque bolts too "stretch" the bolt, the torque/loosen/retorque sequence is too properly burnish or match the threads between the bolts/rods too try and ensure that you get close too the specified stretch at the specified torque.
As you go through this torque/loosen sequence the threads between the rod and bolt burnish together and become "matched" too each other, The closer they are matched the less friction there will be bewteen the two. This allows the bolt too reach the proper stretch at the prescribed torque as less of the torque is eaten up simply overcoming the friction.
Rod bolts should never show longer than their original unloaded length once the clamping load has been relived, if they do they have been taken past their yield and are then scrap.
Rod bolts do not stretch a little bit more every time you retorque them, they should always return too the original length when unloaded.
Another usefull bit of info... In my years of stretching bolts I have found that they pretty much NEVER reach the prescribed amount of stretch with the suggested torque. The torque needed to achieve the desired stretch in my experience is normally quite a bit higher than suggested even when you properly burnish the threads and use the correct assembly lube.
Some of you guys have a misunderstanding of what the torque/loosen/retorque is all about.
You do not torque and loosen then retorque bolts too "stretch" the bolt, the torque/loosen/retorque sequence is too properly burnish or match the threads between the bolts/rods too try and ensure that you get close too the specified stretch at the specified torque.
As you go through this torque/loosen sequence the threads between the rod and bolt burnish together and become "matched" too each other, The closer they are matched the less friction there will be bewteen the two. This allows the bolt too reach the proper stretch at the prescribed torque as less of the torque is eaten up simply overcoming the friction.
Rod bolts should never show longer than their original unloaded length once the clamping load has been relived, if they do they have been taken past their yield and are then scrap.
Rod bolts do not stretch a little bit more every time you retorque them, they should always return too the original length when unloaded.
Another usefull bit of info... In my years of stretching bolts I have found that they pretty much NEVER reach the prescribed amount of stretch with the suggested torque. The torque needed to achieve the desired stretch in my experience is normally quite a bit higher than suggested even when you properly burnish the threads and use the correct assembly lube.
Thanks again for your input Fink, it is appreciated, as is everyone elses.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
With the proper lube and the one retorque that you did do you are probably within .002" of the correct stretch as is just as a wild *** guess.
With what you have if it were mine I would run it and not think twice... on one of the 550+ inch engines I build regulalry that will see 9k rpm I wouldn't even consider it.