Post deleted by jfm

 

Please Dont make this a PISSING MATCH....

I just wanted some Real Answers For My Legitimate Concerns.....

I have My answers....and I think I am going to stay with my X1....
Now MAybe a Moderator will lock this post so that a hockey game doesnt break out after the boxing match that is happening....(although I do Play Ice Hockey and Enjoy it oh so much)

 

Sound Engineer,

To address your original issue, the X1 is a very good cam, but it is also a big cam and will have many of the same issues as a cam as big as the G5X2 (surging at low RPM with an A4, heavy lope, stinky exhaust with no cats etc.) I don't know exactly the information you want, but I have personally witnessed a gain of 20+ HP with a car going from the X1 to the G5X2 with that being the only change. ANY cam that is around 230 duration will require good dual springs and if LG is willing to stand behind the REV springs I'd say that is the best choice for a direct drop-in replacement.

Once you start dealing with cams in the 230 and up duration range, anything 230 and above will sound relatively similar, they are all going to have a big lope and drive similarly and have an idle close to 1K RPM. I don't think you'd notice much difference between the X1 and G5X cam except for the power output. The X1 may have a little more lower RPM oomph however as the bigger the cam the higher the power band usually is. Both cams will be kind of a dog until you're over 3K RPM and will almost necessitate atleast 4.10 gears to be very driveable. I'd say you'd probably stand to gain a decent amount of power with the G5X cam over the X1, but that decision is obviously up to you. Again these are just MO so take them as such....

 

Sound Engineer... you want real experience? I have an X2 in my daily driven Z06. 3K miles since the swap and NO issues. Lou is right, use the REV springs with PROPER breakin and you should be fine. but again big lift cams with aggressive ramps are hard on springs. they will not go 100,000 miles with full warranty. speed parts break.. **** happens.. can't deal with it leave it stock.

As to the pissing match well that is normal on these lists who are full of keyboard warriors who know as much about enigne mechanics as my grandmother. if you have had and wrenched on a 9 sec hemi then you should be smart enough to figure this out and CALL the folks whose parts your looking at and talk to their customers rather than potentially biased rants you get from people on the lists. Good Luck with your project!!

Wes

 

also my heads have been milled .015, my X2 is on a 114 Lobe, with stock gaskets, no valve reliefs and i shift it at 6900 every day.

 

what will I have to do to the heads for dual springs???? The X1 cam has come with their recommended Manley springs and titanim retainers... I am not making a race car out of this one....but I do want it to scare small children....and Impress cute girls...(of course girls who like muscle cars)

My Hemi was Mostly Pro Decided..and I just did some of the mechanic work....I did not do cam or head work...it went to a shop for that.I liked to participate....now I'm making the decisions...and I am tyring to do them properly informed....

Is the x1 a better choice for me???

 

Well look at it this way, Lou's pretty much a Pro. The guy builds his own race cars, sets them up himself and is involved with every aspect of the car from start to finish. Think he knows what he's doing? I would say so.

I've installed or helped install 1 X1 cam, and 3 X2 cams all of them with stock heads and let me tell ya they are all animals. I wouldn't have a hard time driving any of them every day, but like it has been said you just have to know what you have to do to them...its not going to last for ever without having to work on it from time to time. As far as valve spring change intervals, call up Lou and ask him.

The one thing I can't say enough about though is make sure your parts match. If TEA doesn't recommend that cam with their heads, then ask Lou what he sugguests. Everyone has their own ideas about what works and what doesn't. There are tons of guys using the X1 and 2 with both stock and aftermarket heads and the information is out there on who's works and who's doesn't. Just because TEA doesn't like it, or can't build a head to work with it...doesn't mean that it doesn't work because LG's cams do work...I've been in both drag cars and Lou's own car at the Open Track event and yeah...just go take a ride in one, you'll never have to ask again

 

Ok, every car has 16 springs, that means 8 of 100 cars experienced valvspring failure, correct? (1600 springs/16 springs per car= 100 cars) thats an awfully high failure rate, for a cam that has only been out a very short time (relatively). Thats also assuming that you are personally aware of every spring breakage that has occured. Jeez, 8 percent of cars with this cam will experience valvespring failure........ thats pretty high IMO. (I bet its more than that, give the cam some more miles. This cam has been available for 3-4 months now, whats gonna start happening when cars have 5-10k miles with this cam. The wear and tear on the valvesprings will be cumulative, and you will start seeing more failures, but time will tell.

So 8 percent spring failure rate is "less problems"



[

 

What if all 8 springs were on one car?? that would be only 1 car in 100 In reality, you cannot assume an 8% spring failure rate, when you really have only 1/2 % spring failure. and how many of them were from mis installation or abuse? We had one customer install the Rev spring seats in addition to the stock seals ( the ones with the built in spring seat). when he coil bound the springs on start up, and broke some rockers, and springs, would you call that a spring failure, or an install failure??

All I can say is that I have some of the 1592 springs that didn't fail ( 8 failed springs and 1592 good ones). With all due respect, that is not one in 100. And Rev has stood behind every one of the 8 that we knew about.

We recomend that any spring in any cam be changed every 10-15,000 miles. You all know what happens to a single spring when they break, that is why we use double springs.

Thanks

Lou Gigliotti LGMotorsports

 

"There have only been about 8 springs that have broken."

One of your customers had 3 by himself, he called me on the phone.

"and you are bad mouthing the G5X-2 cam"

Sorry Lou, did not mean to offend, just posting my experience with the cam, not bad mouthing.

"Plus you only broke the dampener."

No Lou, it was the inner, the little spring in the middle, not the dampner.

"We had an M6 car in the shop for tuning yesterday with our G5X-2 cam and TEA heads. IT only made 413rwhp after tuning"

Our heads seem to favor single pattern or reverse pattern cams. We have had plenty of people make 440+ RWPH, but none with dual pattern cams. I run this cam for the nitrous, my car doesn't make very good power on motor with this cam either.

"before you try to become an expert on Cams that you DON"T sell."

I do sell cams from Competition Cams, just like you do.

Lou, I am sorry that I offended you, I don't want a problem with you or your company. I also hate to see people buy a product that they may have problems with, not that they will have a problem with YOUR product as much as they will with ANY big lift, fast ramp speed cam. The average person doesn't have the equipment or time to spend on something that may be on the edge of reliability. I was one of these guys once. I bought plenty of stuff that didn't work. Once again Lou I did not mean to offend you.

I knew that I shouldn't post my experience with this cam. Everybody buy one, please!

 

That'd be one unlucky SOB.

 

With all due respect Lou, I think you jumped the gun man. All brent said was that this is not a cam that should be used as a daily driven "street" cam. I agree with that statement and it kind of makes me angry that you are trying to market it as such.

 

"My customer asked why his car would not produce better numbers, The answer is that the TEA heads do not flow at high lift. That is the real reason that Brian/Brent only want to see 570 lift cams, so the lack of high lift flow from the tea heads won't show up."

I suggested that he run .570" or less so that he wouldn't run into reliability problems from such high lift on a stock head. He does not have our heads, so why are you stating that we reccommend .570" or less for our heads when he is clearly not running them? Why are you trying to turn a difference of opinion on what is and is not reliable into an attack on our product?

We flow our heads to .600" every time, if they don't flow, they don't go out the door.

I have been involved in running hyd roller cams on the street with hundreds of customers for over 10 years. I even have a certificate for a "Cam design priciples" workshop that I got while working on the Holley SysteMax stuff back in 1994. So I am not ignorant to the world of cam principles, but very street smart to what I see customers do with heads and related components, if you think .595"/.609" lift is reliable then so be it... if you consider 10k miles a decent valvespring change interval for a "daily driver" with a hydraulic roller camshaft so be it.... I dont.... the Gains in power made from the extra .030" in lift doesnt seem like an acceptable tradeoff for the shortened component lifespan that seems to accompany .600 lift in these motors.

Again i was not trying to badmouth you or your product.. just providing information on the reliability issues I have encountered and experienced first hand with cams of this type so he could make a decision on whats best for his own car.

Brian Tooley

 

Brent, not trying to bad mouth your product either, but your TEA heads on a car with the G5X-2 this weekend put out the least amount of power I have ever seen with it. In fact we have even had several cars with stock LS1 heads put out more power. Albert came in expecting 440RWHP, less than we routinely get with our own heads or Absolute heads, and left rather disappointed. The best numbers of the day were 428rwhp through a completely dumped exhaust. I guess the old saying is true - you get what you pay for.

If your heads don't flow well at high lift and experience reversion problems, then why don't you just say so and recommend a lower lift cam to use with your heads instead of bad mouthing the G5X-2? How many times does the G5X-2 have to prove itself, I have lost count of the number of cars I have tuned with it that have delivered more power than expected.

Last weeekend we tuned yet another G5X-2 car with "home ported" 5.3l heads. 440RWHP after a few minor tuning adjustments.

Yes, Comp grinds our cams. However, they grind them to our specs, just as our head porter ports our heads to our specs. By your logic when someone buys TEA heads, they are simply buying GM heads, as you don't actually produce the heads. Or are you claiming that you produce the heads for GM now with that "sold more LS1 heads than anyone" claim.

So until you produce your own LSx head casting your simply a GM head reseller that modifies them for low lift cams.

 

So you broke a spring with a cam that had similiar specs to the G5X-2, but not a G5X-2? 6 months ago the G5X-2 was not available, and we certainly have not sold you one a 114. Within the last month there have been a few G5X-2 on 114's out and about and they made 440+RWHP, but not with TEA low lift heads.

I think the best lesson learned here do the DIYers is that this is exactly why we sell the cam as a kit, not by itself. That way we can make sure it has the right springs and parts needed with the cam. If you spec our your own cam similiar to the G5X-2, install it with your parts, we can not be responsible for the failures. That being said, where are all the G5X-2 with broken springs? I tune them every single weekend and I have not seen one yet - not one single failed spring after pull after ruthless pull. What am I missing?

 

it is my car that got tuned on saturaday and yes i do have TEA heads (have the reciepts and specs to prove it). all we did is change out the 987 that are only good to .600 lift for some REVs. yes i was very disappointed in my numbers but all in all the car runs good and is very streetable. i figured my flow numbers were good to .600 lift so i thought the X2 would be ok but i guess i was wrong. i am not bashing TEA by any means because there are some people making good power but i guess i am not one of them.

 

Ok, I personally can see this is going to be getting out of hand here shortly between TEA and LG. I am not partial to EITHER side, but I will say in defense of Brian that ALL HE SAID was that large of a cam (the G5X cam) is hard on valve springs. That's it, nothing else. I don't think ANYONE can say that IT ISN'T. Swapping hi performance double springs every 10,000 miles sounds like the cam is hard on springs.

I don't see this as a bash towards LG in any way. He didn't say that the cam didn't make power, he just said that it may be a little aggressive for some in a daily driver and I happen to agree with him. It is an aggressive cam and is hard on valve springs period.

Just because he said that, I don't think that warrants an attack on TEA's quality or performance or anything else. The porting design of the TEA heads seems to favor single pattern and reverse split cams as what Brian said. The G5X-2 is a large STANDARD split, so it didn't make the expected HP output. There's your answer. A couple others have gotten 440 to the wheels with the TR230 cam with TEA heads. It's all about matching your components as Lou has mentioned in some previous posts.

 

[quote
So you broke a spring with a cam that had similiar specs to the G5X-2, but not a G5X-2
but not with TEA low lift heads.


[/quote]

Poor form
yet another reason not to buy LG products.

 

wow, that was a real shoot out at the ok corral TTT.

 

Jeez.. this is like watching a couple of 12 year old girls pull hair on the playground. LG may have snagged a couple trophies on the racetrack, but they won't be winning any awards for professionalism.

What's with smearing TEA's products anyway? Brian made no personal attack on your products, he simply stated that it wasn't a good profile for TEA's port design. Where's the insult in that? I thought the idea was to match your cam to your heads? So, by Brian and Brent doing there job and fulfilling their obligation to their customers, they have wronged you in some way? It's not there job to promote your cam, it's their job to sell proven components that work with their heads. Get over it, jeez.

And what's with trying to coin that gay tagline "TEA low lift heads." Dude, come on. There are plenty of 420, 430, even 440+ RWHP TEA cars.. they just aren't making their power with huge cams with way higher than reliable lift. If you guys can't find a head porter that can come up with a port design that makes 420-440+ RWHP with less than 230 duration and .600 lift, that's your problem, but leave the guys at TEA out of it. Besides, where do you think the real braggin rights on head flow are, 440 RWHP with 224 duration, or with 232+??

I'm still waiting to hear what you guys at LG have to say about your G5X2 cam being an off the shelf Comp grind. Is that the reason it was a super secret? lol. Geez, just when I was getting teary eyed about Lou's touching testimonials of the time about how he always innovates and invests his R&D money only to have his products ripped off. I wonder if Comp Cams wrote something similar in response? That's irony for ya..