Mass Hysteria

I asked Tony how he got to 475 and he said it was an optimized situation, from every little tweak and tune, down to using the lighter wheels. If you've got the resources (dyno tuning ability, Porting techniques, etc, it's doable, most people do not have the resources.

JL ws-6

iTrader: (50)

If you aren't gonna spray or boost the car or try to run some crazy compression, 1/2 the point of the aftermarket is thrown out the window, because the thick head deck surface isn't something that you are going to need or utilize.

That being said, for the goals that you have in mind I think a stock casting will get you where you want to be. Now which stock ported head is best for you, again there's some debate on that. Personally, from the results that I have seen you can make good power with stock ported heads from several places, cnc in florida, tea, prc's all have made good power on cars I have seen, in no specific order. I would avoid putting patriot heads on , those never seem to make the power they should.

The trick here is to get a camshaft that will work with your exhaust/intake and heads correctly, and make sure the install is done with detail in mind, and the power goals that you have set forth should easily be reached without the car getting unruly.

Kingc8r

iTrader: (21)

Interesting opinions...I agree that he can get to where he needs to be with the TSP setup. I think the AFRs may allow him to grow a little bit more in the future.

But from the dyno threads I've seen I'm not that impressed with the AFRs...overall. I would expect a non factory casting head to out perform a factor ported casting by a lot. It could be the setups but from the dyno threads I've seen it's not enough in my mind to justify the additional cost..

JL ws-6

iTrader: (50)

The AFR's are good, there's no doubt about that but ET's and Trickflows, and the edlebrock's as well are all as good if not better in some cases.


All the aftermarket, and the factory ported ones (well most of the factory ported ones) have their place.

Twotonefreak

iTrader: (11)

Spend the money on the AFR's and never look back. For what you are wanting, IMO they're the best route. Great driveability and good power. Its all about area under the curve. The AFR's are going to "feel" so much better at throttle tip in, and thru out the mid range and still run strong at the top of the tach, if you pick out the right cam. Its not always about the number, but how fun is the combo to drive?

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Given I have not had either set of heads. I browse the boards a lot. From the combo's that I have seen the AFR 205 heads don't make that much power than the PRC heads. There was a thread I posted in saying the same thing and I was flamed for being an internet racer and some other ****.

I think if the 205's were that much better than the PRC's we would hear more about them and maybe they do I just haven't ran across it.

I know AFR makes good heads. I have a set of their eliminator heads for my 406.

I think it's kind of like comparing a LS6 intake to a fast 90/90 setup. For the 15hp or whatever that intake is suppose to give you, the $1000+ isn't worth it to me.

The setup I was referring to earlier had 205 heads, FAST 90/90 setup, ARE or Kooks LT's and made no more power than a some PRC/LS6/XS header cars that I have seen on here.

Just my .02

Best of luck with the build and let us know what you decide.

Mass Hysteria

Thanks LilJayV10!

I think the one thing that concerns me is I have heard that some of the PRC Head/Cam Combo's performance was inconsistant.

I'm trying the best I can with all of you guys' help, to make an educated decision.

landonew

I chose the AFR 205s and i am very satisfied.

The first thing people should do is stop arguing about dyno #s. My car made 452 rwhp on one dynojet dyno, and the VERY NEXT day made 424rwhp on a different dynojet 5 minutes down the street. Had same tune, temp, humidity ext. People can play so many tricks when it comes to the numbers (such as simply changing the tire pressure).

Anyhow, tony was able to convince me that the AFRs made a quality head. I have raced people with similar setups but using a ported stock casting and beat them by a significant amount. Again, very subjective comparision considering my victory could be attributed to a number of different variables.

The best answer i can offer is that if you have to ask the question, then go for it and spend the extra $$$ for aftermarket castings. Most people who opt for the ported stockers simply can't afford the aftermarkets. For those people who can afford it, I would suggest they go for it.

What you have to ask yourself is in 12 months which decision are you more likely to regret? Not to many people that i have talked to regreted buying the AFRs. I have met a number however that wished they had spent a little more and gone with a better quality head.

janaka

iTrader: (7)

I honestly believe how well the cam/head package is matched up + the install + tuning is what REALLY makes H/C's come to life. You can buy the best of the best of everything and have a car that runs like dog turds if its not installed properly and tuned to maximize what has been put in. That is why there are people with the 5.3H and cams making the similiar (or the same) power as those with AFR's. Its all in the setup and execution.
I have a feeling when I am going to do heads (i have a cam already) I'm going to go for the 5.3 heads to bump a little compression and give me a good bang for the buck mod. Will it be a full out high HP application? No. But thats not what I want nor what my budget is.

If you want my opinion on your situation here it is. You want to wake the car up and have it driveable to ALL occaisions and its NOT going to be a race car, then why put the best of the best on if that isn't your intention? Keep the $1000 to pay for those black tie dinners or do something else with the money. $1000 is a lot of coin for what I would call a marginal improvement. That is, to me at least, past the point of deminishing returns on the investment.

I hope I made sense

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

u cant go wrong with the AFR or PRC heads. they are proven items on our cars. like i said, the AFR are already $1,000 bucks more and you still have to take into account a shops rate for install + price for tuning!!

PREDATOR-Z

That is why not many poeple like to tackle this subject, because of comments like that.

yes that combo was optimised, and it did make the power it advertises. Bottom line proof is in the pudding, if done once, it can be cloned. However Just to add spice, I've yet to see any stock castings putting numbers out like that.

Benefits AFR 205 over stock casting:
>Designed for high velocity
>Double quench pad
>Thicker deck for boost or high nitrous use.
>More PTV clearance
>Designed for undercurve trq output
>Better resale price

So the Q is Quality, and that costs $$, how much quality can you afford?/

BriancWS6

iTrader: (18)

One area that the AFRs SHINE is power under the curve and throttle "tip in" or throttle response. If you were into running at the track and street racing, where the car would live at 5k+, that's one thing. However, your looking for power under the curve, which when compared to the PRC heads, the 205s win out. And they WILL make as much or MORE peak power than the budget heads.

Get a set of AFR 205s milled to at least 62cc, mill them more depending on the fuel in your area, install a set of cometic .040 gaskets for a tight quench, and run the 224/228 cam that Tony used in his setup, or something close to that, and you will achieve or exceed your goals while having a VERY fun car to drive that acts tame, and sounds subtle.

To the people that say use the 1k towards the FAST setup....why? If I have X amount of money to spend at a given time, I would rather spend the extra money and gain that extra power with the heads than with the intake. Reasons? Cause one day down the road, maybe sooner than later, you'll have more money, or want more power. When that time comes, and you bought the budget heads and FAST intake, where is there to look for more power? Get the heads NOW, and get the intake later.

Want some track results? My car is nearly full weight, no spare, and no back seats is all that's removed. Everything else is in the car, including a 10" powered sub. Without power shifting, it trapped 121.96 on back to back passes babying it off the line cause of the 10 bolt, with a 228/230 cam and AFR heads milled .024 to 62cc.

AFRs get my vote.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Since they have been out, I have not seen one post on this board or any other where someone who had AFR's wished they went with a ported stock casting. Everyone seems to focus on the peak number too.

I think the other question worth asking is how much cam is required with the two heads under consideration to make similar peak power, then where does that leave the lower RPM power curve.

Johnnystock

iTrader: (6)

PRC 5.3l will do just fine. They're proven to make good power for the money!!

Plus if your goal is 420-430rwhp, you dont need to invest on AFR. And since youre on a budget too..you'll get the heads and cam for less than 1600$!!

In the end, AFR is better, but does it fit your needs and budget? I'd say no to a guy who doesnt look that much for the fastest car on the street/track, but a good kick in the pants.

silverbandit0996

iTrader: (2)

if it was me i would just get the prc's and get a hell of a good tune with the money you save. the tune i think will put you where you want with your power goals and drivability. but thats just my 2 cents.

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

Is that like...

fart can exhaust ... 10hp
cold air intake ... 15hp
header .. 15hp
spark plug wires .. 6hp
stickers .. 20hp
3 story wing .. 10hp
---------------------------
76hp gain?

just busting some ***** because we both know that kind of math doesn't work.

c0ncEpT

iTrader: (4)

I think you could hit your goal cam only with 243 casting heads. I would run the 5.3 heads and add a fast and a few other small mods for the same price as the AFR's. I mean you even stated you wanted the car to have a little more power and that it was not going to be raced on a weekly basis. You can have more power for the same price with the PRC 5.3 heads and mods vs. just the AFR heads. If you wanted a max effort set up or even want to spray the car down the road the AFR heads would be the way to go. But I don't think you can justify the cost of the AFR heads alone for your goals with the car at this point.

KingSS

iTrader: (1)

You are absolutely rediculous. Why do you bash on TSP in every thread? Oh yeah, I remember you spoon with bauer. Your posts are retarded 90% of the time!

Once again I will put my car out there for a well built budget headed car making awesome power. I don't see where the math was all wrong because thats what I spent on my car to make that kind of power and it doesn't include any of that bs you have on your car.

Midnight02

iTrader: (8)

Great thread!

I fought with this decision for a while. Frankly, I had the money for AFR's and I chose to go with the PRC's milled down to 60cc for roughly 11:1 compression. From a power standpoint, I wouldn't count on picking up 45 rwhp from the Stage 2.5 5.3L heads, however I did pick up 45+ rwhp and 20+ rwtq with the PRC heads and a FAST 92 setup. Despite my budget heads and a relatively mild cam, the car made respectable numbers on a very conservative dyno (436 rwhp and 408 rwtq) and the power under the curve is ridiculous!

Personally, I feel like I could've pulled a few extra HP and maybe a tenth or two better times in the quarter mile with the AFR's, however I just used the extra $1,100 on my nitrous setup and picked up 150 rwhp! HAHA!

We can all agree that the AFR's are a quality head and would certainly perform better than the PRC's with a true apples to apples comparison. The unknown here is knowing how much more power can be found with the AFR's. In my humble opinion, at the end of the day, if you're looking for driveability and 420 - 430 rwhp with good power under the curve, a relatively mild 224 or 228 cam and the PRC's will certainly do the trick.

Paint_It_Black

iTrader: (1)

Don't worry, I'm done "bashing" TSP. I'm just going to continue reading the site for stuff I like, and I do use the midwest section to get updates on gatherings... as you can see, I didn't post much until recently, I'll just go back to what I did before. I'll post my results next season with Bauer's top end package when it's done. Some things are still in the air, I'd like to follow the NMCA rules for w/e class I decide to run.