first ls1 build, a few simple questions
The 2 bottom oil scraper rings you're talking about should be as far to 180 degrees offset as you can get them. The oil rings usually won't move on their own once you get them into place. By that I mean they won't turn around in their grooves as easily as the top and second rings do. The top and second rings are much looser as you can tell. Don't worry about the piston retainers that hold the rod to the piston. Don't even mess with those. They are kind of a pain to get set right especially if you don't know how to do it. Besides, they break pretty easily.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
Gotcha. Ok I took a look at all of my pistons and rings. Everything seems to be installed just fine, the two oil scaper rings are pretty close to being 180°. It seems like as long as the top big ring is 180° from the bottom big ring, and the top oil scraper ring is about 180° from the bottom oil scraper ring, it will work. Is this correct?
Now before I install these pistons, where should the top oil scraper ring's gap be in relation to the big ring above it (the bottom of the two big rings)? Does it matter?
Thanks again guys I can't wait to install!!
Now before I install these pistons, where should the top oil scraper ring's gap be in relation to the big ring above it (the bottom of the two big rings)? Does it matter?
Thanks again guys I can't wait to install!!
You are correct. The top and second rings should be offset 180 degrees (as much as possible) and the top and bottom oil rings should be offset 180 degrees (as much as possible). Don't worry about the oil ring gaps. The oil scraper rings are left alone. Just make sure they are set flush and aren't sticking out away from the piston or binding. And for gods sake if you have valve reliefs on your pistons make sure they go towards the TOP of the block. Some people install their pistons upside down then have to do it all over again. Good luck with the install!
Like this if you have valve reliefs.
Like this if you have valve reliefs.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
Exactly the info I needed man, thanks!
Good tip on the valve reliefs too. My Wisecos DO have valve reliefs so I will make sure they will be put in properly. lol
There's a dot on the piston face that is the indicator for the front of the engine so now I have two references ha
Good tip on the valve reliefs too. My Wisecos DO have valve reliefs so I will make sure they will be put in properly. lol
There's a dot on the piston face that is the indicator for the front of the engine so now I have two references ha
LOL! Yea I'm sure we've all done something stupid while building engines. I know you aren't there yet but when its time to start your engine you need to promise to do something. Prime your oil pump and check the oil pressure with a remote gauge. When you get there do a search on spun bearings or engine failed after 100 miles or brand new rebuild exploded. You get the point. You'd be surprised how unforgiving these ls engines are for oil pressure.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
WHOA is too much oil pressure during breakin a common cause of engines spinning a bearing?? that is CRAZY man. I saw that you can use a grinder to grind out one of the oil passageways in the oil pump and i'll probably do that, and I also saw that some people drill holes through the lifter trays to help with the oil circulation.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
update Hey guys just wanted to give you an update: I finally installed the pistons! Getting the first piston in was a little tricky with the piston ring compressor. Apparently you can tighten them too tight...when i tried hammering it in the first time, the rings just popped out from under the compressor. i loosened the compressor a little and after that it went in fine.
I made sure the ring gaps were 180° apart, oil on the rings and piston skirt, Royal Purple Max Tuff on the bearings, rod cap sides matched the rod sides, the piston dot faced the front of the engine, 1,3,5,7 on driver's side and 2,4,6,8 on passenger, and that the ARP rod bolts were torqued to 45 ft lbs.
Before that I made sure the cylinders were cleaned thoroughly with 100% virgin lacquer thinner, and then coated with oil.
I know the engine is supposed to be really clean, but man it was tough to keep everything so clean. There was Max Tuff lube, moly lube, oil, lacquer thinner, and sweat all swirling around. I tried but I got moly lube all over the crank throw fins I think.
Anyway, you guys really helped me out installing them, so thanks again. Here are a few pics if you want to see:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/R0010181.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/R0010186.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/R0010188.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/R0010187.jpg
Next up is the double roller timing chain (TSP) and the cam install.
I made sure the ring gaps were 180° apart, oil on the rings and piston skirt, Royal Purple Max Tuff on the bearings, rod cap sides matched the rod sides, the piston dot faced the front of the engine, 1,3,5,7 on driver's side and 2,4,6,8 on passenger, and that the ARP rod bolts were torqued to 45 ft lbs.
Before that I made sure the cylinders were cleaned thoroughly with 100% virgin lacquer thinner, and then coated with oil.
I know the engine is supposed to be really clean, but man it was tough to keep everything so clean. There was Max Tuff lube, moly lube, oil, lacquer thinner, and sweat all swirling around. I tried but I got moly lube all over the crank throw fins I think.
Anyway, you guys really helped me out installing them, so thanks again. Here are a few pics if you want to see:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/R0010181.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/R0010186.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/R0010188.jpg
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com/R0010187.jpg
Next up is the double roller timing chain (TSP) and the cam install.
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Verdad Gallardo I would call LME and verify which rod bolts they sold you. Mine were from TSP and I verified with them that the ARP 2000 series are 7/16" diameter bolts that need 75 lb/ft torque. The basic replacements or the 3/8" diameter rod bolts need your standard 42-45 lb/ft torque. My invoice was generic too and the box they came in didn't help any either. You definitely DO NOT want to over or under torque your rod bolts haha! I would say that if LME said 45 lb/ft then just go with that but it can never hurt to double check.
Looking through the pics everything looks good. If you haven't already, a good thing we like to do is put a little RTV under the head of the side bolts in the main caps. Sometimes oil likes to seep out of those holes if you don't.
Kent
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
Hey guys, I called LME to confirm, they said 45 ft lbs for my rod bolts. Kent, thanks for the compliment; I actually did put some of that Permatex high temp rtv red silicone under the hats of the main cap side bolts (before torquing to 18 ft lbs). Is that the same stuff you guys use to help seal the oil pan to the block? I've seen pics of it and it looked like that Permatex red silicone stuff but it didn't say what kind it was.
Got the UPS tracking number this morning for the Rollmaster timing chain. Should be here tomorrow. Camshaft/oil pump install will be perfect for this Labor Day weekend!
Got the UPS tracking number this morning for the Rollmaster timing chain. Should be here tomorrow. Camshaft/oil pump install will be perfect for this Labor Day weekend!
Looking good! Do you have a degree wheel and possibly an indicator for your cam install. You will want to check all the specs of your cam to verify it is correct. Then you get to decided how to phase the cam. I hope you can read degrees! HAHA.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
Ha, I've been reading about how to degree a cam. But I called TSP and they told me to install it dot to dot and I would be good to go. Something about the cam already being ground to spec and not being required to be retarded or advanced or something like that.
Its always good to double check. Plus you seem like you are very interested in learning. I would do it just for the experience and practice. Double checking and verifying are extremely important in engine rebuilds.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 755
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
Very true, it WOULD be good practice. I'll see if someone I know has one.
My double roller timing chain came in today so I ported my oil pump tonight:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com...ump_PORTED.jpg
It's my first time porting ANYTHING, so please keep the laughter to a minimum! I did the best that I could with the dremel tool hitting the edges of the metal of the housing. Looks like it will flow better than stock though. After I was done porting, I removed the spring and let the housing soak in mineral spirits for about 10 minutes and then sprayed it with carb cleaner and wiped out all of the little bits that came from the porting. Looked pretty clean so I dried it up and torqued the bolts to 12 Nm.
All set for the camshaft/oil pump install this weekend. Just have to survive the rest of the work week now!
My double roller timing chain came in today so I ported my oil pump tonight:
http://zigzautonotes.googlepages.com...ump_PORTED.jpg
It's my first time porting ANYTHING, so please keep the laughter to a minimum! I did the best that I could with the dremel tool hitting the edges of the metal of the housing. Looks like it will flow better than stock though. After I was done porting, I removed the spring and let the housing soak in mineral spirits for about 10 minutes and then sprayed it with carb cleaner and wiped out all of the little bits that came from the porting. Looked pretty clean so I dried it up and torqued the bolts to 12 Nm.
All set for the camshaft/oil pump install this weekend. Just have to survive the rest of the work week now!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 755
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From: Los Angeles, CA (Burbank)
good news and bad news :( Ok, I got good news and bad news. Good news is that the cam is all lubed up and in the block now! THE BAD NEWS is that when i went to torque the cam retainer plate to 18 ft lbs, three of them got torqued just fine, but the last bolt (passenger side) just kept spinning and spinning and spinning. 
i tried another bolt in the same hole, SAME THING. I'm trying not to freak out. What do I do from here?
i tried another bolt in the same hole, SAME THING. I'm trying not to freak out. What do I do from here? 
Sounds like you are going to need to learn how to re-tap holes. They're probably screwed up though so you may have to helicoil or use a keen-sert. I prefer keen-serts myself but they are expensive and you may not be able to use them in this situation. Helicoil is also a good method for repairing threads. Be careful because you will make little tiny metal chips and they will get everywhere if you aren't careful. Don't freak out you can fix this one too. Hey guys, I called LME to confirm, they said 45 ft lbs for my rod bolts. Kent, thanks for the compliment; I actually did put some of that Permatex high temp rtv red silicone under the hats of the main cap side bolts (before torquing to 18 ft lbs). Is that the same stuff you guys use to help seal the oil pan to the block? I've seen pics of it and it looked like that Permatex red silicone stuff but it didn't say what kind it was.
Got the UPS tracking number this morning for the Rollmaster timing chain. Should be here tomorrow. Camshaft/oil pump install will be perfect for this Labor Day weekend!
Got the UPS tracking number this morning for the Rollmaster timing chain. Should be here tomorrow. Camshaft/oil pump install will be perfect for this Labor Day weekend!
Dude, degree the cam. Just in case. I've done many timing sets (LS2 type) that are usually off a couple degrees, Manleys's are dead on though. The number one rule in building engines is to assume everything is F'd up, not that everything is right. When you find something like that set of pistons where the "fwd->" marks are wrong, you'll be glad you checked! You're doing good so far, keep asking questions, keep sweating the details.