Single or double chain?
09-02-2003, 06:16 PM
#41
Re: Single or double chain? BTW - Anyone looked to see what was stamped on their Rollmaster chain?
I got mine from SDPC, they list the chain maker as German not Indian. My chain had JWIS/IWIS stamped on it.
Seems like 1999_SS_M6 is dispensing the 1/2 accurate info.
From SDPC's website...
LS1/6 Heat Treated w/ Torrington Bearing Timing Set
The heat-treated set includes a Torrington bearing on the cam gear and the necessary oil pump spacers and mounting hardware.
Makin’ a cam change? Then it is time to update that stock timing set with a heavy-duty 3/8-pitch double width roller timing set that uses the finest German made chain in the world! We use these same chains on our 1000hp big block Chevrolets and we have not had one failure. Precision-machined billet steel gears insure strength and perfect cam timing. The unique crank gear has 9-different keyways to allow for simple adjustments of cam timing.
from Rollmasters website...
http://home.rednet.co.uk/homepages/d.../rollmast.html
"Red Label [Premium sets are fitted with Iwis chain and multi key optioned, available standard or heat treated, some with shims or torrington bearing, and a complete range of undersize sprockets to accommodate blocks that have been line bored.
Blue Label Economy sets use Rolon chain and one standard key and no options, which makes them significantly cheaper to purchase."
Check the link get the facts...
I got mine from SDPC, they list the chain maker as German not Indian. My chain had JWIS/IWIS stamped on it.
Seems like 1999_SS_M6 is dispensing the 1/2 accurate info.
From SDPC's website...
LS1/6 Heat Treated w/ Torrington Bearing Timing Set
The heat-treated set includes a Torrington bearing on the cam gear and the necessary oil pump spacers and mounting hardware.
Makin’ a cam change? Then it is time to update that stock timing set with a heavy-duty 3/8-pitch double width roller timing set that uses the finest German made chain in the world! We use these same chains on our 1000hp big block Chevrolets and we have not had one failure. Precision-machined billet steel gears insure strength and perfect cam timing. The unique crank gear has 9-different keyways to allow for simple adjustments of cam timing.
from Rollmasters website...
http://home.rednet.co.uk/homepages/d.../rollmast.html
"Red Label [Premium sets are fitted with Iwis chain and multi key optioned, available standard or heat treated, some with shims or torrington bearing, and a complete range of undersize sprockets to accommodate blocks that have been line bored.
Blue Label Economy sets use Rolon chain and one standard key and no options, which makes them significantly cheaper to purchase."
Check the link get the facts...
09-02-2003, 06:24 PM
#42
Re: Single or double chain? 1999_M6_ss wrote
If someone TRULY wants a Rollmaster, and not having one is going to keep you up nights, call me and I'll send you the $85 bucks for one. This isn't a matter of money, it's a matter of concern for bearing life, Jabroney pump spacers, and machine work.
I'm planning another LS1 project and I would like take you up on the free 2x Rollmaster! I have posted in the past I lost sleep worrying about the stock chain. If any qualifies for your kind offer it must be me! I greatly appreciate your willingness to save me $85. I'm sure others will want to take you up on this free replacement too! Thanks Again!
If someone TRULY wants a Rollmaster, and not having one is going to keep you up nights, call me and I'll send you the $85 bucks for one. This isn't a matter of money, it's a matter of concern for bearing life, Jabroney pump spacers, and machine work.
I'm planning another LS1 project and I would like take you up on the free 2x Rollmaster! I have posted in the past I lost sleep worrying about the stock chain. If any qualifies for your kind offer it must be me! I greatly appreciate your willingness to save me $85. I'm sure others will want to take you up on this free replacement too! Thanks Again!
09-02-2003, 06:32 PM
#43
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Re: Single or double chain?
Alright break it up you guys. Look my 01 truck (Iron block) timming chain had a ton of slack so do you think GM did that for thermal expantion? No it is just that it does not make a huge differnce for a nonrace vehicle. And for the average person would not know the difference between 5-15hp. Most people run cams with some advance already built in so if the cam is off due to slack it is not going to be very noticable. But you do notice that some car that have been called FREAKS from the factory and they make very good HP it is thease cars that I believe noticed that I said I believe because it is not documented fact anywhere. That these cars timming is dead on or very close to it.
As I said before, the thoery about cam bearing wear is just that, a theory. It's a concern that I have and no more. The theory about thermal expansion, does not belong to me, I just thought it was worth mentioning as support to the accelerated wear topic. I know why the slack is there, it's there to allow enough tolerance for the timing set to be robotically installed. If not for the tolerance they would have to be hand assembled. That's not a THEORY, that's from the mouth of a Cloyes engineer who was explaining GM's design requirements from them.
Furthermore, nobody in here needs and "breaking up." Hang your referee shirt back up. We're having a civilized discussion and expressing some difference of opinion.
09-02-2003, 06:38 PM
#44
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Re: Single or double chain?
The Rollmaster chain has the letters "Rolon" on part of it and "AKU" I believe. I had a picture from my install that I zoomed in on.
BTW - Anyone looked to see what was stamped on their Rollmaster chain?
I got mine from SDPC, they list the chain maker as German not Indian. My chain had JWIS/IWIS stamped on it.
Seems like 1999_SS_M6 is dispensing the 1/2 accurate info.
I got mine from SDPC, they list the chain maker as German not Indian. My chain had JWIS/IWIS stamped on it.
Seems like 1999_SS_M6 is dispensing the 1/2 accurate info.
09-02-2003, 06:44 PM
#45
Re: Single or double chain? Yeah and as I recall offering FREE $85 to buy the Rollmaster. So if it is so civilized let me give you my address and send me $85. Oh so you think that just because it has a sensor on it it's perfect? I don't buy that how many simple things like O2 sensos have failed or off just a little I think it does make a differece. These sensor are not perfect just another way to keep thing in operating range and further more I'd like to add why did Cloyes make theirs tigher if it is not needed? Just a few points. Oh did you need my address?
09-02-2003, 06:52 PM
#46
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Re: Single or double chain? They made it tighter becuase instead of GM selling you a chain for $38, Cloyes can sell you a new unit for $150. lol They made theirs tighter because you're HAND INSTALLING, not with robotic automation. The tolerance can be tightened and you can get the warm fuzzy feeling of less slack.
09-02-2003, 06:55 PM
#47
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Re: Single or double chain? I wish I could make the search engine do what I wanted. Anyway, I did a search for broken chains and only came up with the single rollmaster, and a Jwis. There was a discusion on the harmonics and aftermarket pullies.
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...true#Post16201
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...rue#Post479448
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...true#Post16201
https://ls1tech.com/threads/showflat...rue#Post479448
09-02-2003, 07:02 PM
#48
Re: Single or double chain? I got my 2xRollmaster back in Nov of 2002 so they didn't just start putting the JWIS chain on.
Who did your friend get his Rollmaster from?
I agree it's possible for any chain to break. While you may not be personally aware of any stock chain failures, there have been a few. Wicked has a current thread about one and I think MellowYellow went thru this a while back. There have been others, I don't recall their screen names. As long as your comfortable with the stock chain stick with it. Over the last five years, I'd heard about enough episodes, I wasn't comfortable with the stock set up for my car with heads & cam. I posted the 2x Rollmaster in my sig because I think it's a decent product with the JWIS chain and deserves mention.
As for the tigher chain, the cam timing is probably a little more accurate with it than the slack stock chain. As for GM, it's another mass production part, cost not top quailty is what governed the design of that chain. Could GM design something better than the Rollmaster, sure without a doubt.
Installing dot-to-dot adjusting cam timing isn't an issue and the stock set up is painless to use. The Rollmaster also makes setting the cam up easier than the stock timing set does if you degree in the cam. While you can degree in the cam and use the stock timing set up, IMO drilling a hole a pinning it with stock set up is the defination of ghetto modding.Many feel it's not necessary to degree but after the cam doctor showed my Comp Cam actually had 3 degrees of advance not 4, I think degreeing the cam in is reasonable. With the sniffer test a degree or two one way or the other in cam events could effect passing or failing if the car is borderline in some cases.
In most cases, the stock chain is probably ok, the 2x Rollmaster may be overkill in in some folks view, however some of the rest of had rather have timing set thats overkill. Each person should read up and make their own decisions about what they are comfortable with, that's what I did. The way I look at it I'd rather have the heat treated 2x Rollmaster on the car than the $85 in my wallet and my old stock chain on the car but each to their own.
As for LPE, using the stock chain more power to them if they are comfortable with it. That's a good plug for the stock chain indeed. Of course there already have been two people post in this thread that had a stock chain break, so I rest my case. Actually, MellowYellow experience scared me into not wanting a stock timing chain, shops had nothing to do with it.
So they made the stock chain with lots of slack so a robot could install it? Yep, that's a real performance designed part if there ever was...since it's designed by your own addmission to make the robot's life easier...
BTW - I do want the $85 for the free Rollmasters, put your $$$ where your mouth is.
Who did your friend get his Rollmaster from?
I agree it's possible for any chain to break. While you may not be personally aware of any stock chain failures, there have been a few. Wicked has a current thread about one and I think MellowYellow went thru this a while back. There have been others, I don't recall their screen names. As long as your comfortable with the stock chain stick with it. Over the last five years, I'd heard about enough episodes, I wasn't comfortable with the stock set up for my car with heads & cam. I posted the 2x Rollmaster in my sig because I think it's a decent product with the JWIS chain and deserves mention.
As for the tigher chain, the cam timing is probably a little more accurate with it than the slack stock chain. As for GM, it's another mass production part, cost not top quailty is what governed the design of that chain. Could GM design something better than the Rollmaster, sure without a doubt.
Installing dot-to-dot adjusting cam timing isn't an issue and the stock set up is painless to use. The Rollmaster also makes setting the cam up easier than the stock timing set does if you degree in the cam. While you can degree in the cam and use the stock timing set up, IMO drilling a hole a pinning it with stock set up is the defination of ghetto modding.Many feel it's not necessary to degree but after the cam doctor showed my Comp Cam actually had 3 degrees of advance not 4, I think degreeing the cam in is reasonable. With the sniffer test a degree or two one way or the other in cam events could effect passing or failing if the car is borderline in some cases.
In most cases, the stock chain is probably ok, the 2x Rollmaster may be overkill in in some folks view, however some of the rest of had rather have timing set thats overkill. Each person should read up and make their own decisions about what they are comfortable with, that's what I did. The way I look at it I'd rather have the heat treated 2x Rollmaster on the car than the $85 in my wallet and my old stock chain on the car but each to their own.
As for LPE, using the stock chain more power to them if they are comfortable with it. That's a good plug for the stock chain indeed. Of course there already have been two people post in this thread that had a stock chain break, so I rest my case. Actually, MellowYellow experience scared me into not wanting a stock timing chain, shops had nothing to do with it.
So they made the stock chain with lots of slack so a robot could install it? Yep, that's a real performance designed part if there ever was...since it's designed by your own addmission to make the robot's life easier...
BTW - I do want the $85 for the free Rollmasters, put your $$$ where your mouth is.
09-02-2003, 07:06 PM
#49
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Re: Single or double chain? ** In order to be eligible for the the 1999_SS_M6 "$85 I'm broke and I don't care who knows it" promotional offer, you must submit the following:
1.) Completed credit verification autorization form
2.) A photo copy of your most recent W-2
3.) A photo copy of your two most recent pay stubs
4.) Proof that on at least one occasion in the last 6 months your family was forced to go without food because of lack of funds attributed to your LS1 modding addiction
5.) Two letters of recommendation from family or friends adequately describing your financial hardship, and subsequent inability to reasonably produce $85
6.) Signed contract obligating your participation in the "I humiliated myself for $85, and all I got was this lousy Rollmaster" tour.
** Promotion may be discontinued at any time, without notification
** Contestants may be disqualified at any time, for any reason
** Promotion directorship is at the sole discretion of 1999_SS_M6 and all decisions made by 1999_SS_M6 are final and cannot be contested
** By participating you acknowledge your understanding of these rules
1.) Completed credit verification autorization form
2.) A photo copy of your most recent W-2
3.) A photo copy of your two most recent pay stubs
4.) Proof that on at least one occasion in the last 6 months your family was forced to go without food because of lack of funds attributed to your LS1 modding addiction
5.) Two letters of recommendation from family or friends adequately describing your financial hardship, and subsequent inability to reasonably produce $85
6.) Signed contract obligating your participation in the "I humiliated myself for $85, and all I got was this lousy Rollmaster" tour.
** Promotion may be discontinued at any time, without notification
** Contestants may be disqualified at any time, for any reason
** Promotion directorship is at the sole discretion of 1999_SS_M6 and all decisions made by 1999_SS_M6 are final and cannot be contested
** By participating you acknowledge your understanding of these rules
09-02-2003, 07:15 PM
#51
Re: Single or double chain? 1999_SS_M6,
No qualifications were made in your orginal offer. I accepted your orginal offer as it was posted as did another person. From this point on your covered by your revised criteria, however if you are a man of your word, you are obligated to make good on the orginal offer made to Inspector12 and myself.
Paypal will fine.
No qualifications were made in your orginal offer. I accepted your orginal offer as it was posted as did another person. From this point on your covered by your revised criteria, however if you are a man of your word, you are obligated to make good on the orginal offer made to Inspector12 and myself.
Paypal will fine.
09-02-2003, 07:36 PM
#52
TECH Enthusiast
Re: Single or double chain?
** In order to be eligible for the the 1999_SS_M6 "$85 I'm broke and I don't care who knows it" promotional offer, you must submit the following:
1.) Completed credit verification autorization form
2.) A photo copy of your most recent W-2
3.) A photo copy of your two most recent pay stubs
4.) Proof that on at least one occasion in the last 6 months your family was forced to go without food because of lack of funds attributed to your LS1 modding addiction
5.) Two letters of recommendation from family or friends adequately describing your financial hardship, and subsequent inability to reasonably produce $85
6.) Signed contract obligating your participation in the "I humiliated myself for $85, and all I got was this lousy Rollmaster" tour.
** Promotion may be discontinued at any time, without notification
** Contestants may be disqualified at any time, for any reason
** Promotion directorship is at the sole discretion of 1999_SS_M6 and all decisions made by 1999_SS_M6 are final and cannot be contested
** By participating you acknowledge your understanding of these rules
1.) Completed credit verification autorization form
2.) A photo copy of your most recent W-2
3.) A photo copy of your two most recent pay stubs
4.) Proof that on at least one occasion in the last 6 months your family was forced to go without food because of lack of funds attributed to your LS1 modding addiction
5.) Two letters of recommendation from family or friends adequately describing your financial hardship, and subsequent inability to reasonably produce $85
6.) Signed contract obligating your participation in the "I humiliated myself for $85, and all I got was this lousy Rollmaster" tour.
** Promotion may be discontinued at any time, without notification
** Contestants may be disqualified at any time, for any reason
** Promotion directorship is at the sole discretion of 1999_SS_M6 and all decisions made by 1999_SS_M6 are final and cannot be contested
** By participating you acknowledge your understanding of these rules
09-02-2003, 07:41 PM
#53
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Re: Single or double chain? Why not run a pole and find out how many chains have broken and what type they were. Maybe that will help everyone. I must admit I was a little shocked to see the single rollmaster break, and the Jwiss.
09-02-2003, 07:57 PM
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Re: Single or double chain? well, that's not EXACTLY what the t-shirt is going to say, but I do promise the use of the word Rollmaster in there somewhere.
DaleMX, I agree with you. I'm curious about how many breakages there have been of ANY kind. I'm not sure that any of the numbers will really be conclusive, but it would be interesting to see SOME idea of what's breaking out there.
I'm going to do some research about the ROLON vs. the JWISS chain on the Rollmaster and see when (and if) that changed.
DaleMX, I agree with you. I'm curious about how many breakages there have been of ANY kind. I'm not sure that any of the numbers will really be conclusive, but it would be interesting to see SOME idea of what's breaking out there.
I'm going to do some research about the ROLON vs. the JWISS chain on the Rollmaster and see when (and if) that changed.
09-02-2003, 07:57 PM
#56
Re: Single or double chain?
I opted for the JWIS myself as well, mainly because I didn't want to mess with all the spacers etc of the double.
09-02-2003, 08:08 PM
#57
Re: Single or double chain? from Rollmasters website...
"Red Label Premium sets are fitted with Iwis chain and multi key optioned, available standard or heat treated, some with shims or torrington bearing, and a complete range of undersize sprockets to accommodate blocks that have been line bored.
Blue Label Economy sets use Rolon chain and one standard key and no options, which makes them significantly cheaper to purchase."
http://home.rednet.co.uk/homepages/d.../rollmast.html
Looks like both chains are used depending on which set one gets.
"Red Label Premium sets are fitted with Iwis chain and multi key optioned, available standard or heat treated, some with shims or torrington bearing, and a complete range of undersize sprockets to accommodate blocks that have been line bored.
Blue Label Economy sets use Rolon chain and one standard key and no options, which makes them significantly cheaper to purchase."
http://home.rednet.co.uk/homepages/d.../rollmast.html
Looks like both chains are used depending on which set one gets.
09-02-2003, 08:19 PM
#59
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Re: Single or double chain? Bird, much agreement with the drilling and pinning.
99 SS also agree that the slack is acceptable for produciton purposes, and replacements are tighter for hand install.
DaleMX, nice idea about the poll!
I again reused the stock chain. And will use it until it shows wear, or reaches end of life wearout. Then, on with another stock chain.
Charlie.
99 SS also agree that the slack is acceptable for produciton purposes, and replacements are tighter for hand install.
DaleMX, nice idea about the poll!
I again reused the stock chain. And will use it until it shows wear, or reaches end of life wearout. Then, on with another stock chain.
Charlie.
09-02-2003, 08:21 PM
#60
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Re: Single or double chain? I guess at the end of the day, a little slack doesn't bother me. Like I said before, this engine isn't mechanically timed, and I don't think it will make any perceptable difference.
I do still worry about the spacers, and the fact that there are NO gaskets in play.
I do still have some opposition to cutting up one GOOD part to make room for another. (i.e. the ASP pulley)
I do still worry about the spacers, and the fact that there are NO gaskets in play.
I do still have some opposition to cutting up one GOOD part to make room for another. (i.e. the ASP pulley)