Will PP Dual Springs Hurt Perfomance With TR224 Cam?
#1
Will PP Dual Springs Hurt Perfomance With TR224 Cam?
I don't know if you guys want to rehash this, I did a search and came up with a discussion about this issue, but it seemed more slanted towards a dual spring offering your engine extra protection if a spring breaks rather than any peformance hit you might take using a dual .650 spring with that small of a cam.
When I bought my TR224/112 cam I ordered Comp 918 springs because I felt they were the perfect spring for that cam, and I still do. A year later I ordered a set of PP 243 ported heads (which I'm in the process of installing now) and it came with Patriot Dual .650 springs. So I'm actually going with those springs with my TR224 cam and stock rockers.
I was wondering what the difference will be running these dual springs as opposed to the 918s? I understand that using a spring designed for bigger cams is not really a good thing despite any extra protection it might offer. Will I be unhappy with those PP dual .650 springs and my small TR224 cam? And what happens (goes wrong) when you use a heavy duty spring like that with a small cam? Thanks.
When I bought my TR224/112 cam I ordered Comp 918 springs because I felt they were the perfect spring for that cam, and I still do. A year later I ordered a set of PP 243 ported heads (which I'm in the process of installing now) and it came with Patriot Dual .650 springs. So I'm actually going with those springs with my TR224 cam and stock rockers.
I was wondering what the difference will be running these dual springs as opposed to the 918s? I understand that using a spring designed for bigger cams is not really a good thing despite any extra protection it might offer. Will I be unhappy with those PP dual .650 springs and my small TR224 cam? And what happens (goes wrong) when you use a heavy duty spring like that with a small cam? Thanks.
#2
Slightly more resistance on the valvetrain which is going to result in slightly more parasitic loss to move the stiffer spring. I doubt you would see more of a 3-5hp difference on the dyno. I wouldn't run anything but a dual spring seeing as if one of those springs break on a 918, there goes a valve, and there goes an engine. At least with the duals you have a back up spring to hold the valve up.
#4
Slightly more resistance on the valvetrain which is going to result in slightly more parasitic loss to move the stiffer spring. I doubt you would see more of a 3-5hp difference on the dyno. I wouldn't run anything but a dual spring seeing as if one of those springs break on a 918, there goes a valve, and there goes an engine. At least with the duals you have a back up spring to hold the valve up.
HAMRHEAD, thanks for posting your experience with that combo. You don't know how glad I am to hear it. Thanks.
#7
I ran 918's when I put in my TR224 cam. I felt and still do, that they are the right springs for that cam. When I bought my AFR 205's, the only ones available at the time had the upgraded dual springs. Since I got them for the same price as the single spring and got them right away, I went with them. If I had a choice I would go with the single spring.
Dual's may provide extra protection if a spring brakes, but........They do produce extra strain on the valvetrane, mainly the valve. I have seen a valve stem pull right off on a set of AFR 205's with dual springs. Weather that had anything to do with the dual springs, or just shitty valves (we know AFR used them at one point) Who knows.
I would not worry over it though.
Dual's may provide extra protection if a spring brakes, but........They do produce extra strain on the valvetrane, mainly the valve. I have seen a valve stem pull right off on a set of AFR 205's with dual springs. Weather that had anything to do with the dual springs, or just shitty valves (we know AFR used them at one point) Who knows.
I would not worry over it though.
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#9
Car made 432rwhp/403rwtq. I wouldn't say low #'s. I made 38Xrwhp/370rwtq cam only. Gained ~50rwhp & 33rwtq with the AFR's. I do hate the dual spring sound you get though.
I'm totally happy with the heads.
I'm totally happy with the heads.
#11
I run a TR224 112 with Patriot Gold Duals
My engine is quiet thank god, took awhile of figuring out how to tighten the rockers properly but I got it now. I have a Monte with a 5.3 and the spring sound is similar.
My engine is quiet thank god, took awhile of figuring out how to tighten the rockers properly but I got it now. I have a Monte with a 5.3 and the spring sound is similar.
#12
Dave, those are fantastic numbers, congrats! I would have gotten the AFRs if I had an extra thousand laying around.
Thanks for the feedback mchdg86.
#13
My friend's ws6 had a set of MTI heads that came Manley springs on a TR224 on a 114. The springs wore after 2 years of racing and street driving and they needed replacing. Manley stop making the spring and we couldn't find a manley replacement so we called thunder racing and they recommended the patriot gold dual spings. We installed the awhile back and no issues or complaints so far.
#14
My friend's ws6 had a set of MTI heads that came Manley springs on a TR224 on a 114. The springs wore after 2 years of racing and street driving and they needed replacing. Manley stop making the spring and we couldn't find a manley replacement so we called thunder racing and they recommended the patriot gold dual spings. We installed the awhile back and no issues or complaints so far.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
#15
#17
I ran the duals with my 224 without any problem. I then upgraded to a bigger cam and heads. Had 2 of the dual springs break on me (not sure of the brand) and was lucky enough to have no valve damage. Went with the Patriot extremes. Have had zero problems so far. You also never know when you might want to upgrade the Cam, and you will want the extra lift that the duals provide. Good luck with your new set-up.
#18
I ran the duals with my 224 without any problem. I then upgraded to a bigger cam and heads. Had 2 of the dual springs break on me (not sure of the brand) and was lucky enough to have no valve damage. Went with the Patriot extremes. Have had zero problems so far. You also never know when you might want to upgrade the Cam, and you will want the extra lift that the duals provide. Good luck with your new set-up.
Thanks for the well wishes! Same to you!
#19
If you ever change cam, I would replace the springs too. Some people believe the springs develope a "Memory", and have a tendency to brake or brake valves after changing the cam with the old springs.
Just something I heard. Not sure of the validity of it.
Just something I heard. Not sure of the validity of it.