AFR 230 V2 - worth the upgrade for my 402?
01-07-2011, 02:30 PM
#1
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AFR 230 V2 - worth the upgrade for my 402? Currently have Pat Stage IIIs on forged aluminum 402 with Vararaam, JF ported TB, VR ported 90mm fast, with TSP MS3 cam (237/242,.603/.609 113), FLP LTs thru Bassani catback. Here is dyno:
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I am guessing it will cost about $3500 for AFR 230 v2 heads, rockers and install. How much difference in rwhp/rwtq can I expect and is it enough to justify the $$s. From the other threads, most 402s do much better than mine anyway. Guesses?
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[/IMG]I am guessing it will cost about $3500 for AFR 230 v2 heads, rockers and install. How much difference in rwhp/rwtq can I expect and is it enough to justify the $$s. From the other threads, most 402s do much better than mine anyway. Guesses?
01-08-2011, 04:02 PM
#3
That cam in an LS3 would be 500 RWHP. Either your heads are holding you back or the tune is off or you have some other issue. If you have ruled out the tune/mechanical issues, then those heads are the cause. There ought to be 50 HP available on a 402 with good heads and a 237 cam.
01-08-2011, 10:34 PM
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Seems like his guess at the hp when he first tuned it was like 490 IIRC. It doesn't matter as it is what it is. Just want to get the most out of motor. Putting the AFRs on there so I will update thread when done.
01-09-2011, 08:55 AM
#7
I think it could shur use a little more cam also, something hi 240s low 250s would do much better in a stoker motor, and lots of exhaust flow, what header size do you have? 1 7/8 are a must have.
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01-09-2011, 09:17 AM
#8
Honestly unless you have a weak hole I think you will scare 500 with those heads. I would be curious about the valve job on the Patriots. Other than #'s being a little low the graph looks good.....
Your torque curve looks really nice BTW and I would not be surprised to see it pick up 25 across the board.
Your torque curve looks really nice BTW and I would not be surprised to see it pick up 25 across the board.
01-09-2011, 10:16 AM
#9
I don't see where he stated who tuned it. There is a dyno graph with a shop name, doesn't say anything about who tuned it.
A moderately cammed stock heads LS3 is less displacement and makes more HP then the OP, albeit with less low end torque. Put a set of stock LS3 heads on a 402 and even with a slightly smaller cam (e.g. 6*- 8* overlap) it makes 500 RWHP. So with his bigger cam, there is plenty of room for more power with a good aftermarket set of heads. Pretty much obvious he is going to gain from a better set of heads if other problems are ruled out.
Not a LS3 motor or heads so WTF does that have to do with it.
01-09-2011, 12:45 PM
#11
I think the new 230 V2 heads would wake that combination up quite a bit
And I would consider a different cam if its in the budget.....feel free to PM me for details if your interested in having me spec a custom for you
Good luck with the new combo
-Tony
And I would consider a different cam if its in the budget.....feel free to PM me for details if your interested in having me spec a custom for you
Good luck with the new combo
-Tony
01-09-2011, 07:33 PM
#13
I don't see where he stated who tuned it. There is a dyno graph with a shop name, doesn't say anything about who tuned it.
I know who tunes at that shop..
A moderately cammed stock heads LS3 is less displacement and makes more HP then the OP, albeit with less low end torque. Put a set of stock LS3 heads on a 402 and even with a slightly smaller cam (e.g. 6*- 8* overlap) it makes 500 RWHP. So with his bigger cam, there is plenty of room for more power with a good aftermarket set of heads. Pretty much obvious he is going to gain from a better set of heads if other problems are ruled out.
I know who tunes at that shop..
A moderately cammed stock heads LS3 is less displacement and makes more HP then the OP, albeit with less low end torque. Put a set of stock LS3 heads on a 402 and even with a slightly smaller cam (e.g. 6*- 8* overlap) it makes 500 RWHP. So with his bigger cam, there is plenty of room for more power with a good aftermarket set of heads. Pretty much obvious he is going to gain from a better set of heads if other problems are ruled out.
You really can't compare LS3 heads to a cathedral headed motor in this case because they like different cams.. My point being the LS3/L92 heads seem to like a shorter duration and shine with cams that are "moderate" in the cathedral world. Cathedrals LOVE duration and the longer the cam you can fit the more a cathedral headed motor will make. I guess the short way to say it is comparing an LS3 headed motor to a cathedral headed motor is apples and oranges. So I think a comparison to LS3 headed motor is irrelevant... Not gonna jack this thread and turn it into a cathedral/ rectangle port thread...
01-09-2011, 11:05 PM
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Still on fence about cam. I will talk to Zack tomorrow. It would be hard to deny the "pill" when offered. Got fender off yesterday, will get accusump on tomorrow and order heads and maybe cam tomorrow. I will keep thread updated as things move along. Thanks for the inputs.
01-10-2011, 07:58 AM
#15
You really can't compare LS3 heads to a cathedral headed motor in this case because they like different cams.. My point being the LS3/L92 heads seem to like a shorter duration and shine with cams that are "moderate" in the cathedral world. Cathedrals LOVE duration and the longer the cam you can fit the more a cathedral headed motor will make. I guess the short way to say it is comparing an LS3 headed motor to a cathedral headed motor is apples and oranges. So I think a comparison to LS3 headed motor is irrelevant... Not gonna jack this thread and turn it into a cathedral/ rectangle port thread...
My points (not articulated as well as I had hoped) were:
1) With a head swap to the inexpensive stock LS3 heads he could get to 500 rwhp.
2) With his cam, a good aftermarket head (which are better than the LS3 heads) should shine even more.
OP: Let Tony help with the cam selection. Looking forward to seeing the result.
01-10-2011, 10:07 AM
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230s are ordered. Staying with same cam. I track my car once a month, so I like the torque. Hopefully the heads will just bump the line upwards about 30 - 40 ftlbs. I will update when installed.
01-10-2011, 01:23 PM
#18
You can get that and more hp if you would change your cam. You just have to tell Tony Mamo that you don't want to sacrifice low end grunt and he will provide accordingly in his cam selection for you. You might end up losing some torque by going with a bigger runner and the same cam.
01-10-2011, 02:41 PM
#19
We're on the same page. I agree that the cam choice is completely different for the LS3 heads.
My points (not articulated as well as I had hoped) were:
1) With a head swap to the inexpensive stock LS3 heads he could get to 500 rwhp.
2) With his cam, a good aftermarket head (which are better than the LS3 heads) should shine even more.
OP: Let Tony help with the cam selection. Looking forward to seeing the result.
^^^^^All points are true and valid Ragtop. I think we are on the same page now
OP I think you will love the 230's but IMO you should go the rest of the way and let Tony spec you a cam. Since you have made this step it only makes sense to me... Hey your wallet will heal
01-12-2011, 05:08 PM
#20
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i also have a forged 402 with patriot stage3 heads, almost same cam 236-242 112degrees with 1.85 rockers= 650 lift. with stock ls6 intake and ported t/b and 85mm maf, long tubes etc..., i also made 457rwhp and 442 tq, will be waithing to se your results, i am in the processe of inst. fast 102 int. and fast 102t/b and 100mm maf. i also was comparing dyno graph, mine at 6000rpm hp and torque drops lock a rock, at 6000 i am at 457 hp and 400tq then by the time i hit 6500 i am at 400 hp and 300 tq, that why i am tring a new intake set up, then i will see.
Last edited by 35th camaro; 01-12-2011 at 05:27 PM.