Gwatney/Rick Crawford radius rod intakes or Fast 102
09-20-2017, 03:15 PM
#41
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Hiossilver did my rod mod LS3 intake and a really aggressive TB port that took me some time tuning to make it work. My bolt on set up plus 1.85 rockers and E85 made a solid 473HP and 475TRQ in my 2015 1LE. Unless your intent is to put a cam that can utilize the fast in the 7k+ range the LS3 is hard to beat.
BTW - hella numbers on the stock internals LS3
09-20-2017, 04:48 PM
#42
I sent my personal RC RR intake (bought upon recommendation from Patrick Guerra) off my daily driver to Black Bird to combine with his other test results. Every intake's porter will likely proclaim that their porting techniques are the best. Rick's not a vendor here, but it would have been nice if other versions of the ported intakes could have been provided by their respective porters to backup their claims. Seems similar to the secret cam valve events in years past and the more recent secret wheel offset threads.
If money's not an issue, buy both, tune both, keep the one you like and return or sell the one you don't like. If you're concerned about power <6500RPM, stick with the long runners of the rod LS3 or LSXR. If you're willing to sacrifice power below 6500, look into LSXR mid or short runners, or the MSD.
Stock LS3 vs LSXRT chassis dyno [Dynojet]
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f213/f...results-415543
Comparing FAST runners [I like this because they measured the ports; Mustang dyno]
http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-st...-a-runner-swap
FAST LSXr 102mm LS3 Intake Swap [see table at bottom of article]
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...-and-dyno-test
Rick Crawford Intake vs FAST 102...Dyno Results
http://www.g8board.com/forums/1619186-post1.html
Gained .2s & 2MPH in 1/4mi switching to radius rod intake, post 12
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ake-gains.html
Rick's comments to me on the flow test results in the above table:
Rick's comments in the other thread, post 15:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...fast-lsxr.html
If money's not an issue, buy both, tune both, keep the one you like and return or sell the one you don't like. If you're concerned about power <6500RPM, stick with the long runners of the rod LS3 or LSXR. If you're willing to sacrifice power below 6500, look into LSXR mid or short runners, or the MSD.
Stock LS3 vs LSXRT chassis dyno [Dynojet]
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f213/f...results-415543
Comparing FAST runners [I like this because they measured the ports; Mustang dyno]
http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-st...-a-runner-swap
FAST LSXr 102mm LS3 Intake Swap [see table at bottom of article]
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...-and-dyno-test
Rick Crawford Intake vs FAST 102...Dyno Results
http://www.g8board.com/forums/1619186-post1.html
Gained .2s & 2MPH in 1/4mi switching to radius rod intake, post 12
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ake-gains.html
Rick's comments to me on the flow test results in the above table:
"Very nice results! The issue with the FAST is the flow gains are not worth it. Cross section and runner taper is so much bigger than stock that it hurts velocity so the flow gain is negated by loss in port velocity(energy). Every time I see dyno test, the FAST is down on power even when using a 102 TB. So although your flow test shows the same trend of the FAST flowing more than mine back when I tested it, the small gain in flow does not equal the amount of volume and runner size it takes to get it. It’s good to see unbiased test match when I posted a couple years ago. Your intake is no different than any other I build. Although I looked it over and fixed the epoxy (what probably happened with the epoxy is I probably got it too hot when curing it. I use heat to speed up the curing process and get all the air pockets out but I have gone as high as 160-170 degree curing it so if it cures solid at a high heat before cooling it will want to over-shrink when cold. I made to sure to heat the intake more evenly and keep it about 120 for curing. Just takes longer....), I did not touch anything else to try and get anything more. It is best if what is tested is the same as what anyone else would get😉 Plus, I don’t think there is anything else to be gained with any practicality. With all the tests that intake has been through with every type of combination, I have never seen it let anyone down with power gains."
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...fast-lsxr.html
"I have the intake on a 416 with a F1 pushing 23-24 lbs of boost....Definitely a lot stronger than a FAST. All the FAST manifolds that were on customers cars with 12+ psi had broken/split runner.
The problem with the FAST flow gains is they are at the expense of cross section and runner taper. The intake cost more power than it makes since it kills more velocity(energy) in the runners than it can make up with flow. Haven't seen anything from a 434 to a 364 not pick up over a FAST at the track or dyno so don't think motor size will fix how it works. We can argue theory but it's been easier to prove it.... "
The problem with the FAST flow gains is they are at the expense of cross section and runner taper. The intake cost more power than it makes since it kills more velocity(energy) in the runners than it can make up with flow. Haven't seen anything from a 434 to a 364 not pick up over a FAST at the track or dyno so don't think motor size will fix how it works. We can argue theory but it's been easier to prove it.... "
09-20-2017, 04:50 PM
#43
Those dont seem like the results PatG got in his 09 G8 6.0 though. The graph is mia somehow but you can get the gist by the posts.
Link
This was a fully ported ls3 intake although not "rodded" but still.
The fast would prob pull a few more rpm out of the stock engine also with the bolt ons.
Link
This was a fully ported ls3 intake although not "rodded" but still.
The fast would prob pull a few more rpm out of the stock engine also with the bolt ons.
09-20-2017, 05:45 PM
#44
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Hell, even on my 346 cathedral ported engine, above 6400, the shorter runners of the ported MSD walked a fast102-- both ported by the same guy on the same bench. Below 6400, advantage long runner. Above 6400, advantage shorter runner. And the shorter runners carried better past peak.
09-20-2017, 06:49 PM
#45
My thread on the Corvette Forum has some comments from an owner of a Gwatney Radius Rod Intake - shipped in 24 hours but was full of shavings and had to be cleaned out.
Personally I would rather deal with Facebook & email to get a Crawford after reading that.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1595595892
Jim Muller makes a great point that if money isn't an issue get both and test!
Personally I would rather deal with Facebook & email to get a Crawford after reading that.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1595595892
Jim Muller makes a great point that if money isn't an issue get both and test!
09-20-2017, 08:13 PM
#46
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This says better what I was trying to say earlier in the thread. I see no reason to do a fast 102 long runner over a rod modded LS3 intake. If I'm looking for higher RPM power, I'd want the fast midlength or short runners, depending on my cam overlap, IVC, displacement, and target RPM for peak HP and carrying past peak.
Hell, even on my 346 cathedral ported engine, above 6400, the shorter runners of the ported MSD walked a fast102-- both ported by the same guy on the same bench. Below 6400, advantage long runner. Above 6400, advantage shorter runner. And the shorter runners carried better past peak.
Hell, even on my 346 cathedral ported engine, above 6400, the shorter runners of the ported MSD walked a fast102-- both ported by the same guy on the same bench. Below 6400, advantage long runner. Above 6400, advantage shorter runner. And the shorter runners carried better past peak.
09-20-2017, 10:09 PM
#47
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This says better what I was trying to say earlier in the thread. I see no reason to do a fast 102 long runner over a rod modded LS3 intake. If I'm looking for higher RPM power, I'd want the fast midlength or short runners, depending on my cam overlap, IVC, displacement, and target RPM for peak HP and carrying past peak.
Hell, even on my 346 cathedral ported engine, above 6400, the shorter runners of the ported MSD walked a fast102-- both ported by the same guy on the same bench. Below 6400, advantage long runner. Above 6400, advantage shorter runner. And the shorter runners carried better past peak.
Hell, even on my 346 cathedral ported engine, above 6400, the shorter runners of the ported MSD walked a fast102-- both ported by the same guy on the same bench. Below 6400, advantage long runner. Above 6400, advantage shorter runner. And the shorter runners carried better past peak.
02-11-2018, 10:34 AM
#48
Those dont seem like the results PatG got in his 09 G8 6.0 though. The graph is mia somehow but you can get the gist by the posts.
Link
This was a fully ported ls3 intake although not "rodded" but still.
The fast would prob pull a few more rpm out of the stock engine also with the bolt ons.
Link
This was a fully ported ls3 intake although not "rodded" but still.
The fast would prob pull a few more rpm out of the stock engine also with the bolt ons.
http://g8nation.com/showthread.php?t=30615
04-26-2021, 07:23 PM
#49
Hiossilver did my rod mod LS3 intake and a really aggressive TB port that took me some time tuning to make it work. My bolt on set up plus 1.85 rockers and E85 made a solid 473HP and 475TRQ in my 2015 1LE. Unless your intent is to put a cam that can utilize the fast in the 7k+ range the LS3 is hard to beat.
I recently purchased a T rod modded intake and will be adding plus a mild cam in my LS3 camaro ss.
