View Poll Results: which heads for 440ci stroker? touched up TFS 235cc heads or touched up GM LS7 heads?
hand touched up TFS 235cc heads.
68
51.13%
hand touched up GM LS7 heads.
65
48.87%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll
which heads for 440ci stroker? TFS 235cc or GM LS7 heads?
11-05-2008, 06:46 AM
#61
not sure what stage
Cam specs-Cartek custom grind
sorry not too much help with those questions
I have all the basic bolt on susupension stuff th350 trans 8"vert
compr ratio is around 13:1
Although I do drive it on the street, I certainly wouldn't drive it everyday, basically to the track, shop and occasional car show.
set up is probably a bit much for what you want it for.
Cam specs-Cartek custom grind
sorry not too much help with those questions
I have all the basic bolt on susupension stuff th350 trans 8"vert
compr ratio is around 13:1
Although I do drive it on the street, I certainly wouldn't drive it everyday, basically to the track, shop and occasional car show.
set up is probably a bit much for what you want it for.
Last edited by Abdullah; 11-05-2008 at 09:21 AM.
11-13-2008, 02:06 AM
#66
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yes.
i dunno any builder that will do it this, but I havnt asked around.... but GM says 4.250 bore is the max for this block NA
problem is the biggest gasket made is a 4.185 or a 4.2 i forget which one.. so it'd have to be custom any bigger, and definitly strictly NA. Bore spacing is standard 4.4, so a 4.185 still leaves .107 thousanths wall. Plenty for nitrous, boost, etc without blowing gaskets every weekend.
Last edited by jermzz; 11-13-2008 at 02:17 AM.
11-13-2008, 02:31 AM
#67
yes.
i dunno any builder that will do it this, but I havnt asked around.... but GM says 4.250 bore is the max for this block NA
problem is the biggest gasket made is a 4.185 or a 4.2 i forget which one.. so it'd have to be custom any bigger, and definitly strictly NA. Bore spacing is standard 4.4, so a 4.185 still leaves .107 thousanths wall. Plenty for nitrous, boost, etc without blowing gaskets every weekend.
i dunno any builder that will do it this, but I havnt asked around.... but GM says 4.250 bore is the max for this block NA
problem is the biggest gasket made is a 4.185 or a 4.2 i forget which one.. so it'd have to be custom any bigger, and definitly strictly NA. Bore spacing is standard 4.4, so a 4.185 still leaves .107 thousanths wall. Plenty for nitrous, boost, etc without blowing gaskets every weekend.
I'm not sure how long the cylinders are on the LSX, but the new Darton sleeves are 5.8" long.
Is the 4.125 stroke perfectly stable in the LSX cylinder at BDC? No piston rocking that will lead to early oil buring issues?
12-14-2008, 07:29 AM
#69
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We have built both of these combos and the TFS headed 440 make ALOT of USABLE power under the curve and STILL peak over 600rwhp with all supporting bolt ons.. At about 620rwhp the FAST 92 seems to become a restriction with MAP readings dropping to 94KPA around 4500rpm....
LS7 heads are a good choice for a RACE motor that isnt driven on the street, but for USABLE power without spinning to the moon the TrickFlows are the ticket HANDS DOWN...
LS7 heads are a good choice for a RACE motor that isnt driven on the street, but for USABLE power without spinning to the moon the TrickFlows are the ticket HANDS DOWN...
Paul
12-18-2008, 10:41 PM
#70
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I just placed my order with LME for a LS7 440ci,im doing a tr 245,and match port the 92lsx intake, after they port the intake out as well....
They are coming out with a 102mm intake,to accommodate the ls7 heads,but im impatient, plus someone like me that had a ls2,it would cost me an additional 2grand to go with the ls7 heads,right now,and to me 20 hp,not worth it, plus i will get half that back with the port work on my 92..
LMR just did my buddies very mild cam 440 ls7, with tf 225's and it made 570rwhp,on a conservative tune... GOOD LUCK WITH THE BUILD!!!!
I cant wait till we fire my hotrod up...
They are coming out with a 102mm intake,to accommodate the ls7 heads,but im impatient, plus someone like me that had a ls2,it would cost me an additional 2grand to go with the ls7 heads,right now,and to me 20 hp,not worth it, plus i will get half that back with the port work on my 92..
LMR just did my buddies very mild cam 440 ls7, with tf 225's and it made 570rwhp,on a conservative tune... GOOD LUCK WITH THE BUILD!!!!
I cant wait till we fire my hotrod up...
01-23-2009, 10:41 AM
#71
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Id say the LS7. The TFS head has a smaller CSA and that will peak torque sooner, but hold back power past peak torque as well. There is such a thing as terminal port velocity, so smaller ports are not always good, especially on a large engine.
A TFS 245 would be better suited for comparison, but I would still go with the LS7 anyway.
A TFS 245 would be better suited for comparison, but I would still go with the LS7 anyway.
01-25-2009, 11:29 AM
#72
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another thing to keep in mind when looking at results of ls7 motors is most are c6 zo6's, which have a dry sump and very light internals (cast pistons, ti rods). this does 'free' up some hp, probably at least 15 rwhp, possibly 20+.
i've had both top ends. the tfs with a fast intake has a LOT more power on the street. as others have said, an LS7 setup could potentially be 'faster' in a 1/4, if you have a solid roller, big compression, sheet metal intake, aftermarket oiling system, aftermarket PCM, and high dollar parts to keep it all together. rpms = big money. these parts would be required to turn a motor 7500-8500 with any degree of reliability.
the tfs heads are very similar in nature to the afr 205's...when the afrs first came out, people weren't 100% sure on them. the afr's dont flow a ton (although nothing to sneeze at either), therefore dont have flowbench bragging numbers. but everyone here knows the afr 205's stomp just about any head out there for a 346. tfs 215's excluded.
the tfs wins this battle hands down imo.
i've had both top ends. the tfs with a fast intake has a LOT more power on the street. as others have said, an LS7 setup could potentially be 'faster' in a 1/4, if you have a solid roller, big compression, sheet metal intake, aftermarket oiling system, aftermarket PCM, and high dollar parts to keep it all together. rpms = big money. these parts would be required to turn a motor 7500-8500 with any degree of reliability.
the tfs heads are very similar in nature to the afr 205's...when the afrs first came out, people weren't 100% sure on them. the afr's dont flow a ton (although nothing to sneeze at either), therefore dont have flowbench bragging numbers. but everyone here knows the afr 205's stomp just about any head out there for a 346. tfs 215's excluded.
the tfs wins this battle hands down imo.
03-21-2009, 01:40 PM
#73
FormerVendor
Depends on who touches up both heads.
The All pros are nice as well. I like the TFS's on almost everything. The main advantage to the bigger LS7 type stuff is that a much smaller cam can be used. Too big a cam with these heads and the TFS can easily be better.
The All pros are nice as well. I like the TFS's on almost everything. The main advantage to the bigger LS7 type stuff is that a much smaller cam can be used. Too big a cam with these heads and the TFS can easily be better.
03-22-2009, 10:21 AM
#74
TECH Fanatic
Thats why I went LS7. Small cam works well. Better daily driver and economy.
03-22-2009, 12:09 PM
#76
FormerVendor
Not sure on exactly how that one test was done but I know the larger heads can use a smaller cam and still make really high power. I helped do an LS7-type deal that is making basically 600 rwhp with only a 230 at .050 cam so I have not seen that so far on anything else.
That wasn't with the actual OEM LS7 heads though and bang for the buck the TFS cathedral port heads are great. We have another car running in the 9.3xs already on pump gas and with hydraulic roller with them (TFS235s but of course much bigger cam)!
That wasn't with the actual OEM LS7 heads though and bang for the buck the TFS cathedral port heads are great. We have another car running in the 9.3xs already on pump gas and with hydraulic roller with them (TFS235s but of course much bigger cam)!
03-22-2009, 03:37 PM
#77
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I have a set of of hand touched up TFS 235's and they already flow 362 @.650 int and 265 exhaust @.650.. still need some more work on valves and port, but I believe they will flow 370/270 @.700 when I am done. intake runner is still 235 
HAHA
03-23-2009, 03:34 PM
#80
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They were cnc 235's from TFS. I think they actually measured around 233cc when I got them. Don't need to change the runner size at all, just need to shape it a little bit and help out the short side turn and the valve job is only a 3 angle from TFS and the heads will be finished with a full radius valve job. as good as these are, there are about 15-25 cfm in the intake and exhaust to be found. The goal is to not have the heads drop off at .700... If we can keep the same flow through .700 - .750 lift, we will be ecstatic. These numbers are with a 4.125 bore plate on the intake