LS3 Timing Chain Failure :(
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 89
Likes: 1
im confused the ls2 Chan is it better then the cloyes chain or the same?? it looked the same to me im running a cloyes single because there where no doubles around last march. every one was sold out and I figured it was better I was told they never break bla bla bla but also I have a high volume melling oil pump so I figured it would of been to much crap trying to put it in with that. I do have the little dampener like like a rubber black block in the middle figure that would take the whip out of it but now im worried after reading this
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati
That black piece of plastic is the injector wiring harness retainer to the fuel rail......It probably broke off when trying to detach the wiring harness from the fuel rail and was sitting near in proximity to the injector port when the fuel rail was removed. Once the rail was removed it more than likely fell through the injector port........
On a side note I know of a particular '04 LS6 in a Corvette which has eaten two timing chains in a year.....the car is ran on roadcourses. The 04 LS6's were actually equipped with the "LS2" chain and he has broken them twice. He was lucky the first time and just kissed some of the valves, the 2nd time he wasn't as lucky and had to replace the long block. His engine was strange in the fact that it was a late '04 production vehicle and when we took it apart the first time the car was equipped with the "LS2" chain, but the engine block was drilled for the earlier design timing chain dampner. We put it all back together and all as fine and as stong as ever . Slightly over a year later ....another chain let go this time ventilating some pistons......
One thing I know these chains do NOT like is rapid/abrupt engine speed changes such as rev-limit too long , very abrupt hard upshifts, and downshifts in roadcourse applications without correct engine speed matching.
It is disheatening to see you have this problem with the new spring loaded timing chain tensioner.......I was looking forward to using the tensioner on my JWIS chain on my solid roller motor.
On a side note I know of a particular '04 LS6 in a Corvette which has eaten two timing chains in a year.....the car is ran on roadcourses. The 04 LS6's were actually equipped with the "LS2" chain and he has broken them twice. He was lucky the first time and just kissed some of the valves, the 2nd time he wasn't as lucky and had to replace the long block. His engine was strange in the fact that it was a late '04 production vehicle and when we took it apart the first time the car was equipped with the "LS2" chain, but the engine block was drilled for the earlier design timing chain dampner. We put it all back together and all as fine and as stong as ever . Slightly over a year later ....another chain let go this time ventilating some pistons......
One thing I know these chains do NOT like is rapid/abrupt engine speed changes such as rev-limit too long , very abrupt hard upshifts, and downshifts in roadcourse applications without correct engine speed matching.
It is disheatening to see you have this problem with the new spring loaded timing chain tensioner.......I was looking forward to using the tensioner on my JWIS chain on my solid roller motor.
Last edited by RAFTRACER; Jan 2, 2009 at 11:48 PM.
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 89
Likes: 1
also see the burnt spot at 12:00 clock on that link looks like it was getting hot sparking in there whatever and then finally the other link snapped but one thing is for certain and I see a lot of guys doing this with the stick cars mainly jumping on and off the gas in gear that will snap a chain in no time it would be nice to see the other side of that chain too
im confused the ls2 Chan is it better then the cloyes chain or the same?? it looked the same to me im running a cloyes single because there where no doubles around last march. every one was sold out and I figured it was better I was told they never break bla bla bla but also I have a high volume melling oil pump so I figured it would of been to much crap trying to put it in with that. I do have the little dampener like like a rubber black block in the middle figure that would take the whip out of it but now im worried after reading this
- 9-4194 - The single row chain currently packaged with timing sets:
- 9-3153A, 9-3158, and 9-3158A
- 9-194 - This is the heaviest duty single row chain Cloyes offers for the LSx engine. It is not in the current Cloyes catalog but still available in limited quantities. This is the chain the OP purchased in this thread and costs approximately $360 for chain ONLY. This chain originally came with timing set:
- 9-3153AL
You would need to determine what part number timing set you purchased to determine which chain you have. More than likely you have 9-4194.
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
From: Alpharetta, Ga
The car *may* have kissed the rev limiter 5 times in the 15k miles I have driven it. I was aware of TC issues well before mine broke and thought I took the appropriate measures to ensure I had no issues. I rarely rev match on the street and always selected a higher gear as opposed to a lower one to prevent the rpm rise associated with using the lower gear. As for abrupt upshifts, I am definitely guilty of that at the track. However, my street shifts were very docile to prevent any accessive abuse to the tranny or clutch.
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 89
Likes: 1
I have the 9-3158 A maybe when I adjust the cam timing I was thinking of it.I will get one of them JWIS chains that cloyes one is to pricey almost 400 buck for a chain they can keep it I would just do a good double roller but that JWIS sounds like it a good piece 169 bucks that aint to horrible
I have the 9-3158 A maybe when I adjust the cam timing I was thinking of it.I will get one of them JWIS chains that cloyes one is to pricey almost 400 buck for a chain they can keep it I would just do a good double roller but that JWIS sounds like it a good piece 169 bucks that aint to horrible
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FormerVendor
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Mpls., MN
Bingo!!! The problem with these setups is the lack of effectiveness of the crank damper. The stock piece is bad enough when the inertia ring (the part designed to move on the hub and absorb crank twist) is bound up by the serpentine drive belt preventing it from moving freely and damping the crank twist. This causes too much velocity change in the crank timing gear speed and causes the chain to whip, breaking it. The only effective dampers are the ATI or Innovators West style which capture the inertia ring inside the drive shell so it can move freely without interferrence from the serpentine belt. In most cases, bigger diameter dampers ARE better for your engine.
Bingo!!! The problem with these setups is the lack of effectiveness of the crank damper. The stock piece is bad enough when the inertia ring (the part designed to move on the hub and absorb crank twist) is bound up by the serpentine drive belt preventing it from moving freely and damping the crank twist. This causes too much velocity change in the crank timing gear speed and causes the chain to whip, breaking it. The only effective dampers are the ATI or Innovators West style which capture the inertia ring inside the drive shell so it can move freely without interferrence from the serpentine belt. In most cases, bigger diameter dampers ARE better for your engine.
It seems that the severe stress on the chain comes from the crank/flywheel rather than the belt side?
I was told by some of the involved manufacturers that it is more of a harmonic vibration issue made worse by lighter smaller diameter dampers which make your comments interesting.
Last edited by See5; Jan 3, 2009 at 02:59 PM.
FormerVendor
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Mpls., MN
Crank twist IS the harmonic vibration and that's why I said a bigger damper is generally better.
I dont know maybe i've been lucky but my ASP pulley has been twisted to 7K numerous times with a stock LS1 chain over the past 8 years. Reading this does make me wonder and reconsider swapping onto my LS2.
Doesn't look like you road race though and the on/off throttle may be a factor.
I don't do much road racing, so the people having broken chains are road racers then? I read the whole thread and didn't catch that. lol So as far as us normal folk/weekend drag racers is it something to be pulling the UD off for the stocker?
I'm pretty sure the OP broke his chain on the return road immediately after a 1/4 mile run.....
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 24,241
Likes: 89
From: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
i have a powerbond, and although it is a beautiful hunk of steel and much better looking then the factory piece i didnt notice anything except it being a big hunk of steel. does it dampen at all?
I've heard the ASP pulley on the LS3 corvette is a bad idea. I have a Powerbond on mine and it's coming off next weekend just as a precaution. I don't believe it ^^^ dampens at all.
Last edited by Jimmyz; Jan 11, 2009 at 02:46 PM.