LS6427

iTrader: (2)

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Not slacking....just sick of assclowns shooting down the idea. As if a sheet metal is anything special.

People that spend STUPID money for blocks like the ERL, go 500ci, then shove a sock in its mouth by using a plastic junk intake and kickass heads like All-Pros or ported LS7's.......are hilarious.

Get an ITB intake.

There ya go....I posted my thoughts.

adams2003...ITB intake is the only intake for you.

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Stage7

iTrader: (1)

No doubt. Every (including your tuner) person I've spoken with who has built the Warhawks have horror stories of machining and getting everything to fit. This doesn't include stories from some about receiving blocks with uncorrectable (or at least it wasn't worth the cost to fix) defects.

I'm not saying the Warhawk isn't strong or can't be built into something powerful in the end. Only that I wouldn't touch it. I had the opportunity to use the Warhawk block and after a ton of research and speaking to people with a lot more knowledge/experience than me, I chose to go a different route. The Warhawk sleeves are on the short side, and the sleeve material isn't as strong. Per World Products, you are limited to a 4.155 bore MAX. With either ERL Superdeck (I and II)you max out at 4.200. The sleeves are longer and stronger as well. ERL's machine work is 2nd to none, and the company stands behind their products. I hear the exact same comments about REDs dry and wet sleeve blocks, although he doesn't offer a tall deck option.

Again, I'm not calling the Warhawk junk, and I'm not saying you can't make power with it, but I wouldn't spend my $$ on it with the other options available.

tektrans

iTrader: (23)

Everyone is entiled to their opinion, not knocking yours. It's easy to say you can have a 4.200 bore, then put limitiations on what you can put to it. (boost, cr etc.)
I'm not gonna debate the Warhawk over the erl with you. 2 different animals and I will say that THERE IS NO WAY you can put through that erl what you can put through a Warhawk. Until it's done, you just can't say it.
I certainly have absolutely nothing against erl and I am sure their machine work is top notch, I have heard that before.
You wouldn't spend your money on the Warhawk and I wouldn't spend my money on a 500ci erl. We can agree to disagree.

Haans249

iTrader: (24)

I'm gonna have to agree with Stage7 on this one as well. Its been seen time and again that the machining work on those Warhawks are atrocious. Not forgetting to mention that many of those blocks have seen settling in the sleeves (settling below the deck, ruining the block) aside from the sleeves being too short and of a weaker material.

You are right though, the oiling system is a nice option, plus the block just has more material for overall strength, but I think the pros don't outweight the cons in this case.

All said and done, i would just opt for the LSX block and get a 460+ ci from HKE. Don't worry about the extra weight, you won't even notice the difference.

Also, what LS6427 said, he is COMPLETELY correct, although you'll be looking at a bit more cash to get it to work on LS7 heads. But overall, the ITB's would be probably the best choice for you aside from Cary's Intake which should no doubt be your ONLY next option.

Lastly, to maximize power and reliability, solid roller would be a better option as well.

adams2003

Hmmm....this is all alot to think about lol. First off BBC is out of the question. The car is already built around an ls2 and its a very tight squeeze....trying to fit a BBC in it would be impossible at this point without a ton of changes to the car.

I was starting to like the idea of the warhawk, but I am starting to doubt this route now too.

Maybe I should just stick with the current motor I have in it. I failed to mention earlier. Here is the motor that is in it currently.

-Resleeved ls2 block 436ci
-4.165" bore
-4" stroke
-11.5:1 CR
-WWCH ported LS7 heads
-Ported stock ls7 intake
-Huge cam
-Custom Kooks 2" headers with 3.5" race collectors

I was thinking the motor would make around 700fwhp. Car is not 100% finished so I was thinking if I was gonna change motors might as well do it before its finished.

Maybe I would be better off keeping the motor I have and running the all pro heads and a ported fast ls7 intake. Ive seen 20hp gains for a ported fast ls7 over a ported stock ls7. And im sure the all pros would give me a hp boost too??? Would 750fwhp be realistic with a combo like this?

Stage7

iTrader: (1)

Fair enough...we can agree to disagree.

However your point about max bore size and what you can do with it applies to both the Warhawk and ERL block. While it may not be recommended to run boost/nitrous on the ERL at 4.200 bore size, it's not recommended to run power adders on the Warhawk @ a 4.155 bore.

I'm not exactly sure what examples you are speaking about when you say: "THERE IS NO WAY you can put through that erl what you can put through a Warhawk." Your reference is a FI build that uses the standard deck Warhawk (to the best of my knowledge at least).

Removing the tall deck options for a minute: The ERL standard deck SDI has been over 200mph @ 3400lbs in the quarter many times. 160mph @ 3900lbs, etc, etc. I haven't seen the Warhawk do anything the ERL hasn't done, or visa versa for that matter.

With the tall deck option, I haven't *seen* or *heard* of the Warhawk tall deck outperforming the tall deck ERL either. If you have evidence to the contrary, I would be interested in seeing it. When I was doing my research, it was hard to find a lot of real world hardcore feedback on any of the tall deck options.

Again, I respect your opinion, but I disagree with many of your points.

Stage7

iTrader: (1)

750 flywheel hp is more than realistic with your current setup w/appropriate cam, tuning, peripheral parts etc. It's even more realistic with ALL PROs and the FAST LSxr manifold. It's been done both ways on pump gas. Especially with a setup that doesn't need to have mild street manners.

The added cubes would shift your power curve down and make it more responsive/torquey down low though. It doesn't sound like you will spend a lot of time at peak power. The bigger cubes will make the power easier, and with a lot less stress on valvetrain, and other parts.

Good luck!

Cool truck btw!

adams2003

Thanks for the input. Im just not sure how much the all pros would help me...20hp? 40hp? Not sure if there worth the extra 3k over ported ls7's.

tektrans

iTrader: (23)

All good points and actually, I really have no answer for you.
I am going to start a thread on yellow bullet and see what actually this tall deck warhawk has done, if it's been done, it'll be on there.
When I say "there's no way" I guess I'm actually talking without really "knowing" I will admit but I will say i would much rather tax a solid piece like the warhawk as opposed to a block that's got an added "deck" on it and for obvious reasons the warhawk "should" be a better choice for doing so.
World actually offers a 481 as a crate motor with 13:5:1 cr solid roller cam and it's rated at 825 horsepower. Does erl offer or advertise that block to be suitable for such an application?
Properly tuned that motor with the right pistons will take a good hit of nitrous, even with the 4.155 bore size.
I'll get back with any results from yb, I respect your opinion as well and this is good conversation here.

Gordon0652

iTrader: (4)

427 or 440 some awesome heads and Cary's intake with an accufab 4500 TB.

racer7088

There's many more options including the new RHS block as well if you have room for a tall deck. It just depends on the budget really.

adams2003

RHS block??? any more info on it? Anybody ran this block yet?

Stage7

iTrader: (1)

Cool, I agree it is good conversation. Keep us posted with what you learn at YB.

I'm not sure what ERL offers in a race gas only solid roller setup as that wasn't what I was interested in. I was only looking for a street motor.

I like the RHS block from what I've read about it (especially the raised cam profile, and priority oiling). But it's early, and not many samples built for feedback yet. Looks promising though.

tektrans

iTrader: (23)

Alot of people talking about the RHS block, looks like it's gonna be a good piece. The Warhawk has priority oiling as well.
So far the feeedback I'm getting on YB is it may be better to keep the tall deck warhawk between 430 and 460ci and I quote "utilize the deck height to correct the piston skirt side loading and use a more forgiving ring pack"
This is for a high compression nitrous build.
I'll get back with more info when I get it.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

adams2003

The more I read about the RHS Race block the more im lovin it....

BES Stroked Nova

iTrader: (24)

Check out the Engine masters challenge from this Year. My engine builder placed 2nd by a mere 0.2 points out of 2000+ plus points. Cant say any names cause they are not a sponser(yet!)

Anyways, they built a pump gas 434 LSX block, Cary's ls7 heads(custom ported) mild 240's cam, Cary's Intake and Made 770 horse.... and the max RPM was 7k and it pulled from 2500!

So bring your setup to them and I bet they know just how to get your 800 horse with 500 cubes and a set of LSW all pro's.... PM me for contact information.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!

COPO9560

A key question not asked yet is what is competition running in their trucks? What kind of torque, hp and fuel are they using. If you are competing with BBC or BBF you are asking a lot from LSX as they have an advantage in cubic inches and cost. Good luck and keep us posted.

adams2003

Only one or two are running a bbc. Most are running circle track motors....440ci small blocks...around 800hp. some closer to 900. Those engines cost 40k and up....and they seem to break quite easily. My truck is probably about 1000lbs lighter than most of the trucks so I think with a nice somewhat reliable 800hp ls motor I would be right in the hunt.

Gordon0652

iTrader: (4)

That seems a little hard to believe...
That means i would be making about 680 to the tire through an M6.

Firehawk441

iTrader: (41)

Corvettemajors: 7.11 @ 208 MPH with a Tall deck Warhawk. 454 cu. in.
Check the top of the list in the forced induction section.