Those of you with TSP shortblocks... Opinions?
01-09-2010, 03:13 AM
#1
Those of you with TSP shortblocks... Opinions? Just looking for some feedback from those of you who have purchased TSP shortblocks. I am looking to either get into a 408 LQ9, 402 LS2 or 427 LS3 around tax time this year and was just wanting to get some feedback, negative or positive on the TSP shortblocks. They seem to have pretty good prices on them.
Also, I know that TSP doesn't actually do their own build work in house, who builds their engines?
Also, I know that TSP doesn't actually do their own build work in house, who builds their engines?
01-09-2010, 05:29 AM
#2
I've been running and SDPC LS2 403 for a few years. I'm told they are built by the same shop that does the TSP builds. It's always had more blowby and crankcase pressure than normal but has never used or burned any oil. Ed did a leakdown test on it last summer and found 25% leakdown on several cylnders and 15% on a few more. It still ran well and made the numbers in my sig but I wonder what I've been missing.
Tomorrow, in fact, Shawn and Ed from VA Speed are picking up the car to freshen the engine and install Darton sleeves turning it into a 427. I have every confidence that this engine will be better built that the last one with more attention paid to individual detail and specs.
Just my $.02
Tomorrow, in fact, Shawn and Ed from VA Speed are picking up the car to freshen the engine and install Darton sleeves turning it into a 427. I have every confidence that this engine will be better built that the last one with more attention paid to individual detail and specs.
Just my $.02
01-09-2010, 08:01 AM
#3
I've been running and SDPC LS2 403 for a few years. I'm told they are built by the same shop that does the TSP builds. It's always had more blowby and crankcase pressure than normal but has never used or burned any oil. Ed did a leakdown test on it last summer and found 25% leakdown on several cylnders and 15% on a few more. It still ran well and made the numbers in my sig but I wonder what I've been missing.
Tomorrow, in fact, Shawn and Ed from VA Speed are picking up the car to freshen the engine and install Darton sleeves turning it into a 427. I have every confidence that this engine will be better built that the last one with more attention paid to individual detail and specs.
Just my $.02
Tomorrow, in fact, Shawn and Ed from VA Speed are picking up the car to freshen the engine and install Darton sleeves turning it into a 427. I have every confidence that this engine will be better built that the last one with more attention paid to individual detail and specs.
Just my $.02
I really don't mind paying a little more to make sure it's done right. A shortblock is a big deal. I guess I should also be throwing in LME and HKE into the mix on this too.
Your numbers don't look bad but 25% leakdown sounds like a crap ton, depending on how the rings were gapped I guess...
01-09-2010, 08:18 AM
#4
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I have a LS3/427 shortblock from SDPC which I've also heard they are built by the same shop as TSP uses. I bracket race this car and have run that motor for 2 years around 350 passes and 20,000 miles with no issues. TSP has great customer service and the best prices, I would definitely buy a shortblock from them!
Dave
Dave
01-09-2010, 08:26 AM
#5
Yeah, I just found that their engines are built by Sunset.
I really don't mind paying a little more to make sure it's done right. A shortblock is a big deal. I guess I should also be throwing in LME and HKE into the mix on this too.
Your numbers don't look bad but 25% leakdown sounds like a crap ton, depending on how the rings were gapped I guess...
I really don't mind paying a little more to make sure it's done right. A shortblock is a big deal. I guess I should also be throwing in LME and HKE into the mix on this too.
Your numbers don't look bad but 25% leakdown sounds like a crap ton, depending on how the rings were gapped I guess...
01-09-2010, 08:32 AM
#6
I have a LS3/427 shortblock from SDPC which I've also heard they are built by the same shop as TSP uses. I bracket race this car and have run that motor for 2 years around 350 passes and 20,000 miles with no issues. TSP has great customer service and the best prices, I would definitely buy a shortblock from them!
Dave
Dave
+1 Great short blocks and great customer service for sure....
Hussam.
01-09-2010, 11:47 AM
#7
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01-09-2010, 01:41 PM
#10
Yeah, I just found that their engines are built by Sunset.
I really don't mind paying a little more to make sure it's done right. A shortblock is a big deal. I guess I should also be throwing in LME and HKE into the mix on this too.
Your numbers don't look bad but 25% leakdown sounds like a crap ton, depending on how the rings were gapped I guess...
I really don't mind paying a little more to make sure it's done right. A shortblock is a big deal. I guess I should also be throwing in LME and HKE into the mix on this too.
Your numbers don't look bad but 25% leakdown sounds like a crap ton, depending on how the rings were gapped I guess...
If you re-read this you will see you answered your own question.
01-09-2010, 05:30 PM
#11
I think it's Sunset Racecraft: http://www.sunsetracecraft.com/
they must be damn good. But as 03 BUSA said they may not spend alot of time on each motor. They may just spit these motors out.
01-09-2010, 07:29 PM
#12
Texas Speed/ SDParts should get after them about not spending enough time on each and make sure they are building quality motors. These motors are a major investment and should be treated as such. A quality shop, should turn-out quality work all the time, not just some of the time.
01-09-2010, 08:01 PM
#13
Texas Speed/ SDParts should get after them about not spending enough time on each and make sure they are building quality motors. These motors are a major investment and should be treated as such. A quality shop, should turn-out quality work all the time, not just some of the time.
01-09-2010, 10:06 PM
#14
Not really. That would be saying that LME and HKE build higher quality engines than does Sunset for TSP, and I don't know that that's fact. That's the question I'm asking.
If that is fact, then like I said, I don't at all mind spending more and going with LME or HKE. Otherwise, I don't see the point in spending the extra $800 and not going with TSP.
Just trying to get some feedback from the guys who have gone through TSP for their builds.
I've actually never once heard of a negative situation regarding the LME or HKE builds, then again, they operate, I'm sure, at a much lower volume as compared to TSP.
If that is fact, then like I said, I don't at all mind spending more and going with LME or HKE. Otherwise, I don't see the point in spending the extra $800 and not going with TSP.
Just trying to get some feedback from the guys who have gone through TSP for their builds.
I've actually never once heard of a negative situation regarding the LME or HKE builds, then again, they operate, I'm sure, at a much lower volume as compared to TSP.
01-09-2010, 10:58 PM
#15
LSxGuy widda 9sec Mustang
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The shortblocks are machined and assembled by Sunset as everyone knows, not cheaply either, and not with the same parts or specs as other engines built at Sunset. The specs are set to a range we specify and no looser than a specific clearance number, I have build sheets on every assembled engine with every measurement.
Each aluminum block is align honed, square decked and then torque plate honed to that specific piston sets specs. You can see some of the procedures and pics in a few recent High Performance Pontiac magazines and should be in one of the current Vette magazines. I lose track anymore of what my work ends up in.
The pistons used are for the most part supplied from Wiseco - a leader in LS piston technology, the other pistons we use are from Diamond. The majority of crankshafts are Compstar (and some Eagle for the budget guys), which all go through a very specific QC process meeting Callies specifications for journal taper, runout and stroke consistancy - if you need these I have them written down from my tour of their plant. I'm not sure if anyone else keeps their crankshafts this consistant, but from what I've seen, probably not.
Each set of Compstar connecting rods are weight matched by big end and then small end weight and then verified (to Callies specs) for length, straightness and sizing. Using these crankshafts with align honed blocks helps keep bearing clearances more uniform with each other and alleviates mixing +.001" sized bearings with standard sized bearings like other crankshafts often require to set the desired oil clearances.
They are not slapped together engines, yes they are built by the same exact employees that are building the 6, 7 and 8 second IHRA and other race-only engines. I believe we are the biggest account at Sunset for most of the year.
I used to do the engine assembly until it became its own job, so rather than stopping vehicle installations and other R+D I'm involved with - it was much easier to sublet the engine machine work and assembly to one of the best respected places in the country for race engines and someone we trust. Luckily for us, they are local.
Each aluminum block is align honed, square decked and then torque plate honed to that specific piston sets specs. You can see some of the procedures and pics in a few recent High Performance Pontiac magazines and should be in one of the current Vette magazines. I lose track anymore of what my work ends up in.
The pistons used are for the most part supplied from Wiseco - a leader in LS piston technology, the other pistons we use are from Diamond. The majority of crankshafts are Compstar (and some Eagle for the budget guys), which all go through a very specific QC process meeting Callies specifications for journal taper, runout and stroke consistancy - if you need these I have them written down from my tour of their plant. I'm not sure if anyone else keeps their crankshafts this consistant, but from what I've seen, probably not.
Each set of Compstar connecting rods are weight matched by big end and then small end weight and then verified (to Callies specs) for length, straightness and sizing. Using these crankshafts with align honed blocks helps keep bearing clearances more uniform with each other and alleviates mixing +.001" sized bearings with standard sized bearings like other crankshafts often require to set the desired oil clearances.
They are not slapped together engines, yes they are built by the same exact employees that are building the 6, 7 and 8 second IHRA and other race-only engines. I believe we are the biggest account at Sunset for most of the year.
I used to do the engine assembly until it became its own job, so rather than stopping vehicle installations and other R+D I'm involved with - it was much easier to sublet the engine machine work and assembly to one of the best respected places in the country for race engines and someone we trust. Luckily for us, they are local.
01-10-2010, 02:20 AM
#16
The shortblocks are machined and assembled by Sunset as everyone knows, not cheaply either, and not with the same parts or specs as other engines built at Sunset. The specs are set to a range we specify and no looser than a specific clearance number, I have build sheets on every assembled engine with every measurement.
Each aluminum block is align honed, square decked and then torque plate honed to that specific piston sets specs. You can see some of the procedures and pics in a few recent High Performance Pontiac magazines and should be in one of the current Vette magazines. I lose track anymore of what my work ends up in.
The pistons used are for the most part supplied from Wiseco - a leader in LS piston technology, the other pistons we use are from Diamond. The majority of crankshafts are Compstar (and some Eagle for the budget guys), which all go through a very specific QC process meeting Callies specifications for journal taper, runout and stroke consistancy - if you need these I have them written down from my tour of their plant. I'm not sure if anyone else keeps their crankshafts this consistant, but from what I've seen, probably not.
Each set of Compstar connecting rods are weight matched by big end and then small end weight and then verified (to Callies specs) for length, straightness and sizing. Using these crankshafts with align honed blocks helps keep bearing clearances more uniform with each other and alleviates mixing +.001" sized bearings with standard sized bearings like other crankshafts often require to set the desired oil clearances.
They are not slapped together engines, yes they are built by the same exact employees that are building the 6, 7 and 8 second IHRA and other race-only engines. I believe we are the biggest account at Sunset for most of the year.
I used to do the engine assembly until it became its own job, so rather than stopping vehicle installations and other R+D I'm involved with - it was much easier to sublet the engine machine work and assembly to one of the best respected places in the country for race engines and someone we trust. Luckily for us, they are local.
Each aluminum block is align honed, square decked and then torque plate honed to that specific piston sets specs. You can see some of the procedures and pics in a few recent High Performance Pontiac magazines and should be in one of the current Vette magazines. I lose track anymore of what my work ends up in.
The pistons used are for the most part supplied from Wiseco - a leader in LS piston technology, the other pistons we use are from Diamond. The majority of crankshafts are Compstar (and some Eagle for the budget guys), which all go through a very specific QC process meeting Callies specifications for journal taper, runout and stroke consistancy - if you need these I have them written down from my tour of their plant. I'm not sure if anyone else keeps their crankshafts this consistant, but from what I've seen, probably not.
Each set of Compstar connecting rods are weight matched by big end and then small end weight and then verified (to Callies specs) for length, straightness and sizing. Using these crankshafts with align honed blocks helps keep bearing clearances more uniform with each other and alleviates mixing +.001" sized bearings with standard sized bearings like other crankshafts often require to set the desired oil clearances.
They are not slapped together engines, yes they are built by the same exact employees that are building the 6, 7 and 8 second IHRA and other race-only engines. I believe we are the biggest account at Sunset for most of the year.
I used to do the engine assembly until it became its own job, so rather than stopping vehicle installations and other R+D I'm involved with - it was much easier to sublet the engine machine work and assembly to one of the best respected places in the country for race engines and someone we trust. Luckily for us, they are local.
01-10-2010, 09:39 AM
#18
Does someone want to define what a "cookie cutter engine" is to me (TSP/SDPC)? How is it inferior to an identical engine, built with identical parts, by a different shop (HKE, LME, Virgina Speed)?
01-10-2010, 11:06 AM
#19
Not really. That would be saying that LME and HKE build higher quality engines than does Sunset for TSP, and I don't know that that's fact. That's the question I'm asking.
If that is fact, then like I said, I don't at all mind spending more and going with LME or HKE. Otherwise, I don't see the point in spending the extra $800 and not going with TSP.
Just trying to get some feedback from the guys who have gone through TSP for their builds.
I've actually never once heard of a negative situation regarding the LME or HKE builds, then again, they operate, I'm sure, at a much lower volume as compared to TSP.
If that is fact, then like I said, I don't at all mind spending more and going with LME or HKE. Otherwise, I don't see the point in spending the extra $800 and not going with TSP.
Just trying to get some feedback from the guys who have gone through TSP for their builds.
I've actually never once heard of a negative situation regarding the LME or HKE builds, then again, they operate, I'm sure, at a much lower volume as compared to TSP.
HKE has 80 engines going all the time and does not advertise.
Word of mouth sells their/our engines and HKE is a leader and one of the most respected voices in LSx engine building. Callies, World, Wiseco etc all listen and made and make improvements based on what Erik tells/told them to do. He is the man behind the scenes that most people dont know about and you will not see him shoot his mouth off about it. Erik was also an instrucor at SAM.
We offer a precision built race engine. You see HKE engines running mid to low 9's on 91 octane pump gas in 3300 lb cars or having the fastest LSx truck in the country. There is a reason HKE engines cost more. Take a look at our 457 and 460 engines and soon to be relesed RHS (block) series. We push the envelope and do advanced builds for a reason.
Last edited by 99blancoSS; 01-10-2010 at 11:26 AM. Reason: content
01-10-2010, 01:42 PM
#20
My sunset motor used oil like you would not believe. Went thru it with only 5k on it last year and the line hone was not straight neither were the cylinders. We have a local guy here that is building all our stuff now. We have 1000 rwhp gto's running around that this guy has built. His words to me were it looked like somebody put this thing together on a monday morning before their first cup of coffee. Again my motor was built by them 3 years ago. Not sure on their quality today.