what weight oil do you run?
Yes, thanks, C6Z. I lost count of seat time, but use A6's and R6's. I use a remote SS filter and taps to/from the block to twin oil coolers. It runs 220* oil and 180* water at 93* ambient sustained runs, with this power level. Since rebuilds are so very expensive I am all ears on this important matter. I'm not quite clear on the types of oil bases. I actually thought M1 was OK for me.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...installed.html
the C6Z's oil system isn't that great and running on A6/R6's and have seat time it wouldn't surprise me if you're close to maxing out the factory "dry sump". As stated in that thread an aftermarket oil pan and baffle from ARE or the LPE/Aviaid combo would be a great starting point to ensure engine longevity. Oil wise, I'd honestly say go with a 15w-50 or 20w-50 especially if you don't have a better sump and baffle. Even with them I'd still run with the higher viscosity oil. IF price isn't much of a concern on the car for you, also look into the Joe Gibbs Racing Fluids. I've been seriously looking at the XP6 for my LS3 build in my Camaro (looking for ~520rwhp). My dad has a 66 vette with a solid roller 454 big block that he races and winds out to close to 8k, his engine builder has him using Joe Gibbs XP3 from the get go.
Here's more good threads for you to read on the C6Z:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...hard-data.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...llation-2.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...k-results.html
Oh, and honestly, Mobil 1 has some of the worst consumer line oils on the market. Their racing oil lines are still good, but also very expensive and hard to come by unless you go through them directly (also a minimum purchase quantity). For an over the counter oil, Castrol, Valvoline, and Redline are really what to go with. Redline has a good synthetic 15w-50 a lot of track goers use, and Valvoline has the VR1 20w-50 other track goers use (like myself).
You're engine builder may have his own opinion on this too. Wouldn't hurt to ask him as if something does happen to the motor at least he can't just say something retarded like: "Well you should have been running xxx brand and I could have warrantied it"
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 1
How about some 1970's quaker state from 711. I haven't heard that one yet. 
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
From: SW Virginia
snip...the C6Z's oil system isn't that great and running on A6/R6's and have seat time it wouldn't surprise me if you're close to maxing out the factory "dry sump". As stated in that thread an aftermarket oil pan and baffle from ARE or the LPE/Aviaid combo would be a great starting point to ensure engine longevity. Oil wise, I'd honestly say go with a 15w-50 or 20w-50 especially if you don't have a better sump and baffle. Even with them I'd still run with the higher viscosity oil....snip
Ask him what he thinks about the Joe Gibbs XP6. JG oil is very unique. The XP3 which is a 10w-30, feels and looks very thin compared to your typical over the counter 10w-30. So I would imagine that the description of their XP6 would fit you very well, it's thin like a 10w-30, but provides the added protection of a 15w-50. Or maybe the XP1 would be better? I'm really no oil expert, and can only really give recommendations off my experience and others who go to the track often 
I'd be interested to hear what your builder has to say though. I'm actually probably going to call JG's about my LS3 build and see what they recommend along with possibly changing oils in my racecar.I've always had the opinion that engine builders know oil better than anyone, as they all have their own preferences and they can give good information as to why
Mobil One 10-40 in a heads/cam all the bolt ons LS1 making 452/418 in a daily driver with 212,000 + miles on it ... oil consumption is and always has been since new 1/2 quart every 2500 miles and oil is changed every 5,000 miles ... hardly ever goes to the strip but does get run hard on the street...
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In that case, definitely talk to your builder Ask him what he thinks about the Joe Gibbs XP6. JG oil is very unique. The XP3 which is a 10w-30, feels and looks very thin compared to your typical over the counter 10w-30. So I would imagine that the description of their XP6 would fit you very well, it's thin like a 10w-30, but provides the added protection of a 15w-50. Or maybe the XP1 would be better? I'm really no oil expert, and can only really give recommendations off my experience and others who go to the track often I'd be interested to hear what your builder has to say though. I'm actually probably going to call JG's about my LS3 build and see what they recommend along with possibly changing oils in my racecar.
I've always had the opinion that engine builders know oil better than anyone, as they all have their own preferences and they can give good information as to why
Ask him what he thinks about the Joe Gibbs XP6. JG oil is very unique. The XP3 which is a 10w-30, feels and looks very thin compared to your typical over the counter 10w-30. So I would imagine that the description of their XP6 would fit you very well, it's thin like a 10w-30, but provides the added protection of a 15w-50. Or maybe the XP1 would be better? I'm really no oil expert, and can only really give recommendations off my experience and others who go to the track often I'd be interested to hear what your builder has to say though. I'm actually probably going to call JG's about my LS3 build and see what they recommend along with possibly changing oils in my racecar.I've always had the opinion that engine builders know oil better than anyone, as they all have their own preferences and they can give good information as to why
Often times the opposite is true . You need to talk with someone who is a chemist and involved in racing engines. Not saying they are all mislead, but many of them hate synthetic oil, recommend too high of a viscosity "because thicker oil is better oil" and the like. For example I am in contact with Dave over at Redline Oil in benicia california. He recommended their 5w-30 for my new 1200hp LS2 build. He agreed that a 50wt simply is not needed and way to thick for a stock clearanced LS motor. Keep in mind their 5w-30 acts as a conventional 10w-40 would in the bearings and cam. Polyol Ester synthetics have a natural viscosity index and need little to no viscosity improvers(this is where a conventional and high dollar Group V synthetic really differ, amoung other major differences). I have been using Redline for 16 years and love the product and support. They work closely with many top race teams. Many have redline under the hood and some big name conventional oil banner on the fender.
As dave stated, the increase of viscosity when moving to a 50wt is a bit much for a LS motor even with high hp due to all of their oils having high HTHS ratings and very high film strength. Even if some film stength was gained it would not be realized or needed for this application. Heavy oils are for large clearanced motors and air cooled applications. 50 wt in your street strip car is old school and not needed, but run what you want.
Often times the opposite is true . You need to talk with someone who is a chemist and involved in racing engines. Not saying they are all mislead, but many of them hate synthetic oil, recommend too high of a viscosity "because thicker oil is better oil" and the like. For example I am in contact with Dave over at Redline Oil in benicia california. He recommended their 5w-30 for my new 1200hp LS2 build. He agreed that a 50wt simply is not needed and way to thick for a stock clearanced LS motor. Keep in mind their 5w-30 acts as a conventional 10w-40 would in the bearings and cam. Polyol Ester synthetics have a natural viscosity index and need little to no viscosity improvers(this is where a conventional and high dollar Group V synthetic really differ, amoung other major differences). I have been using Redline for 16 years and love the product and support. They work closely with many top race teams. Many have redline under the hood and some big name conventional oil banner on the fender.
As dave stated, the increase of viscosity when moving to a 50wt is a bit much for a LS motor even with high hp due to all of their oils having high HTHS ratings and very high film strength. Even if some film stength was gained it would not be realized or needed for this application. Heavy oils are for large clearanced motors and air cooled applications. 50 wt in your street strip car is old school and not needed, but run what you want.
As dave stated, the increase of viscosity when moving to a 50wt is a bit much for a LS motor even with high hp due to all of their oils having high HTHS ratings and very high film strength. Even if some film stength was gained it would not be realized or needed for this application. Heavy oils are for large clearanced motors and air cooled applications. 50 wt in your street strip car is old school and not needed, but run what you want.
I think bearing clearances have gotten lost in all of this. I, like most people on this board fall into the category of, "I know what has worked for me". It's always been my belief that bearing clearances, along with the type of use/abuse your engine is going to see, is the determining factor of what weight oil to use. Road race engines that endure heat cycles like in SIKO2SS's post above may necessitate a thicker oil due to expanding clearance during the course of a race. If the the oil temp stays at 220 degrees it's obviously getting much hotter in parts of the engine and being cooled to that level. The excessive heat causes clearances to loosen and some feel 20-50 is going to give them better protection for that specific situation. I understand this to be even more of a factor when someone is using an aluminum block, since aluminum expands at twice the rate of iron.
So, if when you start a road race that will last an hour and your clearances on the mains are .0020, what will they be in the middle and at the end of that race? Is it better to worry about the cold start damage of tight clearances and heavy oil or to worry about the late heat cycle loose clearances and a lighter weight? What is the lesser of the two evils?
I don't know if I'm trying to over-simplify this for my own understanding but I would love to hear some thoughts on this.
So, if when you start a road race that will last an hour and your clearances on the mains are .0020, what will they be in the middle and at the end of that race? Is it better to worry about the cold start damage of tight clearances and heavy oil or to worry about the late heat cycle loose clearances and a lighter weight? What is the lesser of the two evils?
I don't know if I'm trying to over-simplify this for my own understanding but I would love to hear some thoughts on this.
I think bearing clearances have gotten lost in all of this. I, like most people on this board fall into the category of, "I know what has worked for me". It's always been my belief that bearing clearances, along with the type of use/abuse your engine is going to see, is the determining factor of what weight oil to use. Road race engines that endure heat cycles like in SIKO2SS's post above may necessitate a thicker oil due to expanding clearance during the course of a race. If the the oil temp stays at 220 degrees it's obviously getting much hotter in parts of the engine and being cooled to that level. The excessive heat causes clearances to loosen and some feel 20-50 is going to give them better protection for that specific situation. I understand this to be even more of a factor when someone is using an aluminum block, since aluminum expands at twice the rate of iron.
So, if when you start a road race that will last an hour and your clearances on the mains are .0020, what will they be in the middle and at the end of that race? Is it better to worry about the cold start damage of tight clearances and heavy oil or to worry about the late heat cycle loose clearances and a lighter weight? What is the lesser of the two evils?
I don't know if I'm trying to over-simplify this for my own understanding but I would love to hear some thoughts on this.
So, if when you start a road race that will last an hour and your clearances on the mains are .0020, what will they be in the middle and at the end of that race? Is it better to worry about the cold start damage of tight clearances and heavy oil or to worry about the late heat cycle loose clearances and a lighter weight? What is the lesser of the two evils?
I don't know if I'm trying to over-simplify this for my own understanding but I would love to hear some thoughts on this.
You make a great point about road racing. It is entirely different than a 1000hp drag car that sees street duty. Next time I speak with Dave I will ask him what they are recommending for your application. This is where a 50wt may actually be needed in an LS engine.
i used to run castrol 5w-30 and have then switched to castrol gtx 10w-40 and k&n filter and engine is much quieter. I was having problems with lifters staying pumped up with the thinner oil. No problems and been running it for 2 years.
Amsoil 10w30 synthetic. I have used walmart synthetic, royal purple, and valvoline synthetic and had high oil consumption. Not so much with the Amsoil.
134k mile stock heads and stock bottom end running mid 10's on the bottle. I must be doing something right. I'll be gunning for high 9's this fall when it cools off.
134k mile stock heads and stock bottom end running mid 10's on the bottle. I must be doing something right. I'll be gunning for high 9's this fall when it cools off.
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
From: SW Virginia
Resurrecting this important thread. This is a 700+ FWHP 427 LS7 n/a and I rather violent 30 min sessions. (I read the amazing Joe Gibbs site.) I went to my engine builder after finding a few brass shavings in the filter. I had to do a rebuild before from premature bearing wear. He GAVE me a case of "Pennzoil 25W-50 GT Performance Racing Motor Oil". I was using 10-40 Mobil 1. Anyone heard of/use this? (BTW bearing cl is .0027)
Resurrecting this important thread. This is a 700+ FWHP 427 LS7 n/a and I rather violent 30 min sessions. (I read the amazing Joe Gibbs site.) I went to my engine builder after finding a few brass shavings in the filter. I had to do a rebuild before from premature bearing wear. He GAVE me a case of "Pennzoil 25W-50 GT Performance Racing Motor Oil". I was using 10-40 Mobil 1. Anyone heard of/use this? (BTW bearing cl is .0027)
Resurrecting this important thread. This is a 700+ FWHP 427 LS7 n/a and I rather violent 30 min sessions. (I read the amazing Joe Gibbs site.) I went to my engine builder after finding a few brass shavings in the filter. I had to do a rebuild before from premature bearing wear. He GAVE me a case of "Pennzoil 25W-50 GT Performance Racing Motor Oil". I was using 10-40 Mobil 1. Anyone heard of/use this? (BTW bearing cl is .0027)
Never heard anything on Pennzoil. Though I don't think that's a normal over the counter type Pennzoil, but I could be wrong. If it's there racing version (much like Mobil 1 makes an expensive high quantity only race oil), I'm sure it's probably good, but I have no idea.
There's a mod on here: Patman
He's the most oil knowledgeable person on this site; if you do a basic search on oil threads by him or with him you'll see what I mean. I PM'd him previously to chime in here, and heard nothing back and no posts..so I don't know how active he is here anymore (like most mods
)