AIRWOLF LS7 heads
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From: REALITY
Bozz
Been making 4 digit power for over 3 years in the 505 with Procomp 320cc heads. 9psi and 1094whp to be exact. Maybe Procomp had issue's with the foundry they were first using but I don't think that has been an issue for at least the past 5 years.
it would have been alot nicer if it were a fair test. they used the same cam for all the heads,i can tell you for a fact that every head responds differently to different cams. And every head requires something different in a cam. It would have been nice to see every head cammed properly. This would have shown a totally different outcome.
I think the test was about as fair as you could get. I can imagine a test with "proper" cam profiles for each set of heads, and someone on the internet still arguing about what would have been "proper" and how it would have been a different outcome.
Yes it might but it might not. Look at that flow chart in the first post. There is no bore size or pipe used posted there. It doesn't even show 28". At least show the bore since 28" is a given.
You can own an inferior product and as long as you grease the right wheels you can get your product noticed and advertised. So putting them in a magazine doesn't mean that they are some new bad *** product and doing a couple of dyno pulls to show their power potential is only a part of an engine head's quality. Lets put them out there in the real world and put them on a 427 with 23 psi of boost and see how long they last. If they hold up I will be the first to say congrats, but given Procomp's casting history they might go
on your engine.
You can own an inferior product and as long as you grease the right wheels you can get your product noticed and advertised. So putting them in a magazine doesn't mean that they are some new bad *** product and doing a couple of dyno pulls to show their power potential is only a part of an engine head's quality. Lets put them out there in the real world and put them on a 427 with 23 psi of boost and see how long they last. If they hold up I will be the first to say congrats, but given Procomp's casting history they might go
on your engine.I didn't say the test makes them a bad *** set of heads, I'm saying they probably deserve a second look. If Procomp's castings are as bad as everyone says they are, and they never bothered to make any revisions to them, then no one would send a set to be tested and to have the outcome published in a nationally distributed magazine. But someone did...two sets.
This doesn't make them the best castings, or even the second best castings, but maybe they aren't so bad. Maybe Bryce can chime in with some testimonilas on some castings that have proven reliable...
Fair? Like how Mast's head used 1.8 ratio LS7 rockers while all the others used 1.7?
I think the test was about as fair as you could get. I can imagine a test with "proper" cam profiles for each set of heads, and someone on the internet still arguing about what would have been "proper" and how it would have been a different outcome.
I think the test was about as fair as you could get. I can imagine a test with "proper" cam profiles for each set of heads, and someone on the internet still arguing about what would have been "proper" and how it would have been a different outcome.
This is why combinations are so important-you change one part and it ruins the combination.every cylinder head in that test should have had an optimized combination otherwise it's all just useless info.
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Define American made. Some of the biggest suppliers in the industry who have been American made for ever are already in China. Cant afford the labor in the states anymore.
exactly my point-more lift doesn't mean it going to make more power. I can tell you for a fact that a 11 deg head requires a totally different cam than a 15 degree head. Not bigger or smaller but different. If i put a cam in a 15 degree engine for a 11 degree head it will lose power and vise versa.
This is why combinations are so important-you change one part and it ruins the combination.every cylinder head in that test should have had an optimized combination otherwise it's all just useless info.
This is why combinations are so important-you change one part and it ruins the combination.every cylinder head in that test should have had an optimized combination otherwise it's all just useless info.
Again, I think an "optimized" combination is arguable, especially when it's based off of dyno numbers. Even then, its "optimized" for a 468ci engine, and when those heads go on a 370 or 408ci, it ruins the combination, as you say, and that test of "optimized" engine data becomes just as useless.
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How do you know they aren't that great? The Airwolf LS3's seemed to do pretty well against other LS3 castings in HOT ROD's test.
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You can own an inferior product and as long as you grease the right wheels you can get your product noticed and advertised. So putting them in a magazine doesn't mean that they are some new bad *** product and doing a couple of dyno pulls to show their power potential is only a part of an engine head's quality. Lets put them out there in the real world and put them on a 427 with 23 psi of boost and see how long they last. If they hold up I will be the first to say congrats, but given Procomp's casting history they might go on your engine.
on your engine.there are alot of guys running Procomp castings with alots of boost and N.O.S.
We get heads in the shop all the time from big name American companies that have cracked decks, blows, and rocker stands broken off....just saying
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the flow chart on the first post is on a 4.125 bore fixture and yes is test at 28" we tested the exhaust with a 1 3/4 x 3" straight wall pipe.
Our LS3 head made the most hp for the heads using the 1.7 rocker. And the main reason is not just good flow numbers but the correct velocity profile. We're not just after High flow, we work very hard on managing the air speeds during port development.
Our LS3 head made the most hp for the heads using the 1.7 rocker. And the main reason is not just good flow numbers but the correct velocity profile. We're not just after High flow, we work very hard on managing the air speeds during port development.
When these heads are casted or they just your run of the mill sand casted head or do you have a special casting process?
So I touched on durability and you bring a point of durability of other castings. Now I touched on the point of power and you can't possibly tell me that you have had engines come in your shop with AFR's or TFS's and you pulled them off and put on a set of Procomp's and made more power....just saying.
Last edited by 87silverbullet; Feb 27, 2011 at 03:54 PM.
Bryce
The heads look good but AFR's have much finer CNC profiling in the chamber....and there is alot of tricks to be had with the proper toolpath creation as well as certain software programs....some are better than others.
This is not a hand finished piece....
This happens to be one of our 23' Chevy heads but an LS chamber looks no different.
The heads look good but AFR's have much finer CNC profiling in the chamber....and there is alot of tricks to be had with the proper toolpath creation as well as certain software programs....some are better than others.
This is not a hand finished piece....
This happens to be one of our 23' Chevy heads but an LS chamber looks no different.
DM
Did you seriously believe yourself when you typed that
or were you hoping that we would!? Talk about frictionless... I bet that by the time HOT ROD got finished getting their palm greased by these guys, Calico costing would of had nothing on them!
A MAG is a business and companies pay BIG to get into them and believe me, the MAG does not care about the validity of their claims when staring at that check!
I am into powerlifting and I pick up Muscle Mag, Muscle Development, and a few others... If I were to rip out all the BULLSHIT adds that are in there, it would go from being 3/4 thick to 1/4 thick, but then too, the price would go from $7 each to $15+ I'm sure... my point is... they don't give a ****!!! And this is stuff that goes INTO your body!!!
I NEVER believe **** that is endorsed in MAGs!!! I research the product for myself and get real world Exp from others. I see all these
that go out and spend $500+ and wounder why they can't grow 1 pound of muscle in 2 months, lol... damn retards!Since it is obvious that the sins of the "forefathers" will impede the success of their successors and since everyone's issue is with the casting and material, why don't you have a few sets Xrays, Sonic Tested, Mag Fluxed, or what ever plus run an analysis on the material
The point is... the numbers look good, but what about the head itself!?
DM
Last edited by Devils Mentor; Mar 6, 2011 at 01:27 AM.
Did you seriously believe yourself when you typed that or were you hoping that we would!?
Talk about frictionless... I bet that by the time HOT ROD got finished getting their palm greased by these guys, Calico costing would of had nothing on them!
A MAG is a business and companies pay BIG to get into them and believe me, the MAG does not care about the validity of their claims when staring at that check!
The point is... the numbers look good, but what about the head itself!?
DM
or were you hoping that we would!? Talk about frictionless... I bet that by the time HOT ROD got finished getting their palm greased by these guys, Calico costing would of had nothing on them!
A MAG is a business and companies pay BIG to get into them and believe me, the MAG does not care about the validity of their claims when staring at that check!
The point is... the numbers look good, but what about the head itself!?
DM
I understand that a magazine is a business, and I understand the product placement in them. If it was just the one set of ProComp castings in the test, I wouldn't have argued otherwise.
HOWEVER, a performance shop independent of HOT ROD and ProComp decided to use ProComp castings for their Airwolf line of cylinder heads, and even put them up in a cylinder head test against the likes of Livernois and Mast for the whole world to see and criticize. If those heads are as bad as everyone says they are, I don't think HOT ROD could pay a shop enough to use such horrible castings and deal with the ensuing headaches when they start blowing up engines. I've never bought a set of ProComp castings, have you? I made it clear that I'm not saying these are the baddest heads around, but as far as quality, maybe there is something they know that we don't. Personally, I think thats the less ignorant attitude to have.
Yes, I believe that, but I couldn't really care less if anyone else, especially you, believes the same or not. That wasn't the point.
I understand that a magazine is a business, and I understand the product placement in them. If it was just the one set of ProComp castings in the test, I wouldn't have argued otherwise.
HOWEVER, a performance shop independent of HOT ROD and ProComp decided to use ProComp castings for their Airwolf line of cylinder heads, and even put them up in a cylinder head test against the likes of Livernois and Mast for the whole world to see and criticize. If those heads are as bad as everyone says they are, I don't think HOT ROD could pay a shop enough to use such horrible castings and deal with the ensuing headaches when they start blowing up engines. I've never bought a set of ProComp castings, have you? I made it clear that I'm not saying these are the baddest heads around, but as far as quality, maybe there is something they know that we don't. Personally, I think thats the less ignorant attitude to have.
I understand that a magazine is a business, and I understand the product placement in them. If it was just the one set of ProComp castings in the test, I wouldn't have argued otherwise.
HOWEVER, a performance shop independent of HOT ROD and ProComp decided to use ProComp castings for their Airwolf line of cylinder heads, and even put them up in a cylinder head test against the likes of Livernois and Mast for the whole world to see and criticize. If those heads are as bad as everyone says they are, I don't think HOT ROD could pay a shop enough to use such horrible castings and deal with the ensuing headaches when they start blowing up engines. I've never bought a set of ProComp castings, have you? I made it clear that I'm not saying these are the baddest heads around, but as far as quality, maybe there is something they know that we don't. Personally, I think thats the less ignorant attitude to have.
Well seeing how this thread is FULL OF FAIL, lets see how much you care when the dust starts to settle on your inventory of Wolfy heads and their shinny luster starts to fade away.... You'd think they
were...they were... C-C-C-CURSED - "Even a set of heads that is pure at flow, and has good lift by 600, may become an AIR WOLF when the..... ehhh... yeah you get the point!
And there is NOTHING ignorant about having the preconception of something, when the only thing that has ever been proven by said something has been failure!
Harbor Freight prides themselves on selling ****, and they've made a successful business out of it, but I don't think I would duplicate their business model because I doubt it will work twice!
If you are going to sell these heads, you have a long, and I'll bet, lonely road ahead of you... But then again, you can at least say that you're the ONLY shop on LS1TECH that carries them... they're X-clusive!
DM
This is so typical. Techers arent willing to keep an open mind. I would like to see someone try these and give some honest results. I have seen this guys heads on engines in engine masters. He is doing exactly what callies is doing with the compstar line. Those cranks are cast in China then finished here. Same thing with these heads. He is taking the Procomp casting, cnc porting it, installing new seats, valves, and springs then beating the other castings in the Hotrod challenge. I am a true believer in the AFR, Mast, Trickflow, and PRC heads but I dont understand how anyone could know these are junk without trying them out.
learn how to spell "American" before you pawn Chinese garbage i never put anything down on here but there crap is just that ..."my opinion"
Last edited by lordrazo; Mar 7, 2011 at 06:57 PM.
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From: Your GF's pants
MAST, AFR, GMPP all +1, but Procomp? Just my .02. I think people would be better off buying the heads, taking all the parts out of them, and then throwing the casting in the Garbage. 
However, the numbers are good.
Just my .02. I think people would be better off buying the heads, taking all the parts out of them, and then throwing the casting in the Garbage. However, the numbers are good. 
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"Xong Weng, we no have enough arunimum to make another batch of cyrinder heads. See what you can find in pire of scrap in back of shop, boss say we can use any ting shiny, Amelicans want cheap, not good!"
Quality of overseas castings are entirely dependent on who's watching the pot and what's going into it. I know that Callies and Scat monitor their stuff, who monitors ProComp's, Harbor Freight?
Quality of overseas castings are entirely dependent on who's watching the pot and what's going into it. I know that Callies and Scat monitor their stuff, who monitors ProComp's, Harbor Freight?
Last edited by Busted Knuckles; Mar 8, 2011 at 09:01 AM.
