pharmd

iTrader: (4)

I was under the impression that you would want a short stroke for this type of situation. Something that combines mid-range TQ with suspension setup and tire, such that you have an optimal blend of traction and power.

The decision is really between doing an LS1 budget motor, or rebuilding my LS2. The price difference will likely be about $3500, but the power difference not as great? I wanted to get a solid combo up and going for now, then in a couple years build a nice motor.

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

Mine all have the hub/pulley that mates to ATI damper. Probably an ATI piece.

The guy that I know that could best answer your questions would be Tim Schwanke at Schwanke Racing Engines as he has built a lot of single and multi stage dry sump LS systems.

"Bosco"

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

Finally some good tech info on LS1"tech". Hang around long enough it pops up from time to time.

Thanks!

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

Depends on class rules. In the 1990's Oldsmobile was racing in a Road Course Series (ALMS, Pirelli Challenge, can't quite remember). The engine rules were not restricted for displacement. They ran BBC's in the 600+ CI range and did not spin the hell out of them. They swithced to an Aurora based engine near the end of the series. If you have a displacement limit, then you want as much bore as you can, within the confines of the block, at the expense of stroke. That way you can maximize the effectiviness of the displacment.

That's why Cup cars are around 4.185x3.25 or 4.25x3.15, been awhile since I looked into it.

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

Olds was racing in IMSA Camel GT in the 90's with Cutlass's built by Irv Hoerr, Tommy Riggins and others. These cars were using small block chevy's with about 366 ci making in the neighborhood of 650 hp on the engine dyno. Most utilized the Chevy Bow Tie 18 degree cylinder heads as used in Nascar at the time. Later Olds campaigned the Aurora's using the Aurora V8 I believe. These were tube framed GT cars weighing about 2800 pounds with driver, very similar to Trans Am cars

jbhotrod

Im not a racer and dont know much about road racing but I love watching it and would love to be involved in it. My dad recently became friends with a guy whose son races Porsche GT3s in the ALMS and other series though and the guy wants my dad to help him get into drag racing. He is setting up a 69 Camaro with a 572 BBC that put down 899hp. He wants my dad to work on the car for him and help get set up at the track. Hopefully that could maybe turn into some type of connection and possibly get my foot in the door into the racing business and possible job opportunity down the road though I hope Im not speaking too soon(knock on wood). I dream of getting ANY type of job on a racing team like that! LOL

But anyway FWIW I remember reading something about the Dodge Vipers being limited to 5000rpm or something like that for Le Mans but they still did well and I know this is a crappy source so dont flame me but on Forza the Viper race cars were limited to 6000rpm or less I wanna say.

And I know its not road racing but the tracks are similar as far as turns/straights, I raced motocross for half my life and always have been/will be a die hard 2-stroke lover but the 4-strokes have taken. Excluding my opinion that they were favored by the manufacturers to take over due to more $$$ and the EPA being involved so the 4-strokes were given way to much displacement advantage. In reality it shouldve been 125 2-stroke vs ~185-200cc 4-strokes and 250cc 2-strokes vs ~330cc 4-strokes. Anyway the reason the 4-strokes took over is due to the power curve. Early on the 2-strokes were making MORE peak power than the 4-strokes but the power curve of them makes it much easier to ride faster. You can be in a gear too high and it dont matter while with a 2St if youre a gear too high it falls on its face and youll likely case the next jump and bust your *****. Same thing happened in MotoGP with the 500s vs 990s.

I realize a 2-stroke is a much more exagerrated example though as if youre not at the right rpm you arent going anywhere. But, I figured it may translate just a little bit to what yall are saying. Sorry for the essay but I just wanted to see if my insight may help a bit to people who dont understand...

pharmd

iTrader: (4)

So is their any REAL need a forged crank on this type of motor...If you budget oriented what components are MUST have upgrades?

Seems to me like the stock LS2 crank would be adequate, maybe even stock rods with upgraded bolts, Forged/coated pistons are probably a smart upgrade, as would be rocker upgrade (trunion upgrade minimum), good pushrods, better lifters.

Anyone have anything they think needs to be added? Are these thoughts accurate?

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

We have had no problems road racing with stock cranks and stock rods up to about the 500 HP level on an engine dyno. All of our motors have had forged pistons. If you are only gonna spin these motors in the 6500-6800 range you should be ok. We have always used the ARP rod bolts. We have had one stock rocker failure and have since gone to the comp cams trunion upgrade. I believe they use these on the Nascar K&N Series LS2 motors.

Bink

Bosco - I recognized you from the info in your posts. Could you place your nickname in your sig so these guys know who you?

Your real-world experience and knowledge is greatly appreciated by all.

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

I would if I could figure out how to add it.


OK, figured it out

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

For what it is worth here is our Grand Am type Vette. Much to poor to actually run it in Grand Am, but we have one none the less.
The only things there that are Corvette are the body and the LS6. It is a tube frame, with Nascar Jerico tranny and nine inch rear end. Nascar Brembo's etc. Below is our team Camaro.....Howe chassis and Howe body, carbureted 383 LS6, 570 HP.

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

Are you with the GARC guys out of Alabama?

Jenson

iTrader: (32)

We have 2 guys with stock cranks that rev to 11k rpm (2.0L), forged is for a lot of power/rpm. Daily is the place to go!! They made us a new from scratch billet dry sump pan in 7 days a couple years ago. I'm in a similar situation trying to decide on a dry sumped LS1 rebuild or sleeve it for max cubes and use LS7 heads.

garcr4

iTrader: (1)

No, my cars have been built by Woody Wood of Bemco Fabrication in Deland Fl.
Woody is a former ASA AC Delco and Championship winning ARCA crew chief for many well known racers and a former Nascar Cup crewman. Woody has more than 30 years experience building race cars of all types.

jbhotrod

Wow, the Corvette is hot! If its not a secret, care to show us what the rear suspension setup looks like?

pharmd

iTrader: (4)

So for a setup going into a street/race (HPDE, AutoX, road course....not competitive series) 02 Camaro (curb wt 3500ish), would a stock cube LS2 with 11.1-11.5 cr a mid 23x cam, FAST intake, and high quality cylinder head (using stock crank, forged rods/pistons) be adequate? Motor should make close to 600 fly wheel HP. My main concern is longevity. What lifters and rockers and pushrods (3/8?) would best fit this type of application?

Camaro99SS

iTrader: (4)

At the risk of stating the obvious here, one area I would be careful is how well the rotating assembly is balanced, particularly with extended high rpm use. The mfg's like Scat certainly offer this, usually within ~1gram. Places like Texas Speed or other specialty engine shops who do everything in house tend to get theirs within 1/2 gram or less. Alot of shops tend to farm this process out, so it can be difficult to actually tell how thoroughly this gets done. It may not be enough to make a difference, but every little bit counts, and I'd rather spend any extra $ here instead of a heavier forged crank since you won't be spraying or putting any big load on the engine.

Jason

Orange Juice

iTrader: (3)

Interesting reading, I just wanted to ask if the ls2 build is not economic then maybe a stroked ls1 would make a good track motor.

pharmd

iTrader: (4)

The decision was between stock cube LS2 vs stroked LS2 (402). The question was really, is the extra power, especially the TQ, really necessary for this type of car. I'll be honest, I haven't been able to drive the car at many of these events yet, so I certainly need seat time, time to learn my car. My initial thought was an LS2 would make more than enough power for me to learn under. Then after a season or 2 of getting familiar, and making some tweaks here and there, then maybe I could build the big motor....if I wait a few years, I will do a sleeved LS2 427 with LS7 heads.

jbhotrod

How high were they spinning the old Can-Am Group 7 494ci engines to?