Maximum power for the LS7
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 67
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Yes, you are completely right. There are also times with nearly no traffic early in the morning and late afternoon.
The thread questions where about the LS7 and that the motors here have really hard work to do.
The thread questions where about the LS7 and that the motors here have really hard work to do.
Either would I. With a properly Darton sleeved block you get into problems with the liner being considerably stronger than the stock sleeves. You also have the issue of them being longer and providing more support for the piston at BDC. That creates the problem of being able to run a stronger piston. Then if you do ever have to rebuild the engine you're faced with the difficult decision of just boring it larger or replacing it with a shiny new block. No way!!!
The advantage of running a boosted stock LS7 block is the ease of diagnosing problems. You can simply pull the heads and the cracks will be located near the top of the cylinder. Can't get any easier that that!
Last edited by WKMCD; Sep 27, 2012 at 10:47 AM.
Either would I. With a properly Darton sleeved block you get into problems with the liner being considerably stronger than the stock sleeves. You also have the issue of them being longer and providing more support for the piston at BDC. That creates the problem of being able to run a stronger piston. Then if you do ever have to rebuild the engine you're faced with the difficult decision of just boring it larger or replacing it with a shiny new block. No way!!!
The advantage of running a boosted stock LS7 block is the ease of diagnosing problems. You can simply pull the heads and the cracks will be located near the top of the cylinder. Can't get any easier that that!
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,616
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From: Norn Iron
If that was the case everyone would use a hardfilled block simple because it is the strongest. Not very practical for a road car though.
IMO use either an iron block or one with factory liners, and with the thickest cylinder walls that will get the job done.
Oil squirters should also be considered essential.
Other than that, as long as the rotating components are of good quality, there is a stable camshaft/valvetrain in place and proper water and charge cooling, there is little reason the engine wont handle it without too much difficulty.
I'm not a smart man but I don't see the connection between using a properly setup Darton sleeved block and pushing water. They can be o-ringed just as easily as the stock liner or handle any other treatment you might do with a stock block - aluminum or steel. An argument could be made that they will seal better than a stock liner since you know they will be concentric to the rotating assembly and the original engineering specifications. Stock blocks can be way off with liners considerably thinner on one side than the other.
BTW: I can think of a faster way to kill handling than to throw additional weight over the front wheels with an iron block. Like was pointed out - not a factor with 1/4 mile cars but important on a road coure car..
As I admitted, I'm not a smart man.
BTW: I can think of a faster way to kill handling than to throw additional weight over the front wheels with an iron block. Like was pointed out - not a factor with 1/4 mile cars but important on a road coure car..
As I admitted, I'm not a smart man.
Is this a legitimate question? A 1000rwhp LS2 isn't enough for the Autobahn? Why do you need more power for the Autobahn? Are you street racing? Do you have a dyno competition coming up? Magazine article? Standing mile or top speed competition?
I mean, I think folks could help you out more if we understood why you need sustained WOT with 1000+rwhp? There aren't very many practical reasons for it. And if it's to sustain a highspeed... say 200mph, well you don't need anything close to 1000rwhp in a Vette of F-body. If you want to have it just because, well, then that's fine. But that doesn't sound like it here...
I mean, I think folks could help you out more if we understood why you need sustained WOT with 1000+rwhp? There aren't very many practical reasons for it. And if it's to sustain a highspeed... say 200mph, well you don't need anything close to 1000rwhp in a Vette of F-body. If you want to have it just because, well, then that's fine. But that doesn't sound like it here...
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,616
Likes: 185
From: Norn Iron
I'm not a smart man but I don't see the connection between using a properly setup Darton sleeved block and pushing water. They can be o-ringed just as easily as the stock liner or handle any other treatment you might do with a stock block - aluminum or steel. An argument could be made that they will seal better than a stock liner since you know they will be concentric to the rotating assembly and the original engineering specifications. Stock blocks can be way off with liners considerably thinner on one side than the other.
BTW: I can think of a faster way to kill handling than to throw additional weight over the front wheels with an iron block. Like was pointed out - not a factor with 1/4 mile cars but important on a road coure car..
As I admitted, I'm not a smart man.
BTW: I can think of a faster way to kill handling than to throw additional weight over the front wheels with an iron block. Like was pointed out - not a factor with 1/4 mile cars but important on a road coure car..
As I admitted, I'm not a smart man.
I guess the liner itself may be stronger, but it's actual installation will not. And that's where reliability issues can arise.
You just need to research every engine type where people have had problems with re-linered blocks. That has nothing to do with LS or any specific platform.
Ive never used a Darton setup though, and wont be risking my money either until I have serious problems with a factory block setup. Which to date I have not.
And as it seems he just wants something for straight line top speed, weight anywhere is hardly a concern for that. It might even be a bonus and make the car more stable
You're talking about hypothetical problems with a sleeved build. I have never once heard of a properly installed Darton dry sleeve coming loose. The LS7 application would be a dry sleeve. The wet sleeves are a little bit different story.
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9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,616
Likes: 185
From: Norn Iron
I still wouldnt take the risk. And lets face it, there really doesnt seem to be that many people on the FI forum using them either. Or if they are, they dont talk about it. That's maybe a good thing if they're working, or maybe nobody is using them.
Either would I. With a properly Darton sleeved block you get into problems with the liner being considerably stronger than the stock sleeves. You also have the issue of them being longer and providing more support for the piston at BDC. That creates the problem of being able to run a stronger piston. Then if you do ever have to rebuild the engine you're faced with the difficult decision of just boring it larger or replacing it with a shiny new block. No way!!!
The advantage of running a boosted stock LS7 block is the ease of diagnosing problems. You can simply pull the heads and the cracks will be located near the top of the cylinder. Can't get any easier that that!
Can't get any easier than that!
Wkmcd, and he won't get it so I'd give up on that.
I dont see how a liner that has been pressed in as an afterthought will ever be as strong as one cast into the block from day 1
I guess the liner itself may be stronger, but it's actual installation will not. And that's where reliability issues can arise.
You just need to research every engine type where people have had problems with re-linered blocks. That has nothing to do with LS or any specific platform.
Ive never used a Darton setup though, and wont be risking my money either until I have serious problems with a factory block setup. Which to date I have not.
And as it seems he just wants something for straight line top speed, weight anywhere is hardly a concern for that. It might even be a bonus and make the car more stable
I guess the liner itself may be stronger, but it's actual installation will not. And that's where reliability issues can arise.
You just need to research every engine type where people have had problems with re-linered blocks. That has nothing to do with LS or any specific platform.
Ive never used a Darton setup though, and wont be risking my money either until I have serious problems with a factory block setup. Which to date I have not.
And as it seems he just wants something for straight line top speed, weight anywhere is hardly a concern for that. It might even be a bonus and make the car more stable
Back in the early 2000's it seemd dry sleeves were iffy, and Darton Wet sleeves done at RED were "the deal". I probably did not keep up well enough becasue my pocketbook could never accept the hit anyway. BTW if you have "lost faith" in sleeved blocks I can pm you an address where you can send one set up for a 4.125x4 build
I have an n/a ls7 block (traps as quick as 133.X in the quarter w/ a 3,650 race weight) and a local guy used to run lots of nitros on a 427 (as quick as 7.9) and had no problems. I constantly hear everyone saying how weak they are and I know an LS2 and an LS3 are stronger. It just seems that if something goes wrong, no matter what block you have, the block is toast. I'm thinking of going with a turbo so I may be going to an iron block.
Ya, i'm not sure why my Darton sleeved 13:8 to 1 compressioned 445 has been great! In fact that same block was sleeved by RED back in 2007 and used for numerous builds, 427,441, now 445 C.I. Amazing how these pressed in sleeves have worked without any such issues!? Maybe i should sell this thing before it pushes water?? 
Ya, i'm not sure why my Darton sleeved 13:8 to 1 compressioned 445 has been great! In fact that same block was sleeved by RED back in 2007 and used for numerous builds, 427,441, now 445 C.I. Amazing how these pressed in sleeves have worked without any such issues!? Maybe i should sell this thing before it pushes water??
Ive heard of plenty of engines over different marques where retro fitted liners have led to coolant loss and head gasket sealing issues and I have direct experience on some engines myself ( 4cyl turbo ). There is certainly nothing new about such problems. But as I say, Ive never used a Darton setup.
I still wouldnt take the risk. And lets face it, there really doesnt seem to be that many people on the FI forum using them either. Or if they are, they dont talk about it. That's maybe a good thing if they're working, or maybe nobody is using them.
I still wouldnt take the risk. And lets face it, there really doesnt seem to be that many people on the FI forum using them either. Or if they are, they dont talk about it. That's maybe a good thing if they're working, or maybe nobody is using them.