Briou

iTrader: (1)

Alright guys I have been a member for a little while now but I haven't done much posting...been doing allot of searching and reading, researching for my upcoming project. I am planning a build of an N/A aluminum 454ci to put into my '70 chevelle build. So here is the basic outline of my plan, still a few gaps that I am hoping to get some help figuring out.

I am going to start out by getting an L92, LS2, or similar long block for initial mock up of getting the engine fitting in the car, finding what headers, oil pan, mounts, etc. will work but that is another section of the forum. I am planning on getting the short block from ERL. The standard deck, dry sleeved 454 stroker short block that they offer, and sending in the block I have as the core.

From there I plan on going with some heavy breathing heads, but I am still not sure as to what heads to go with. I am thinking of giving the Brodix STS BR 7 273 heads, or something similar. I like the look of the Holley Hi-Ram intake but I am not too sure as to how much power it will support. So I will either go with the Holley intake or nut up and get a sheet metal intake. I am going to try my best to find/build some 2" primary headers to help this thing exhale.

Then as far as cams go I still have allot of research to do...obviously it will be something to match up with whatever heads and intake I end up running.

As far as engine management goes I plan on running Holley Dominator EFI. Backing up the engine I plan on putting in a build 4l80e, and back to a build 12 bolt.

So this is where the wealth of knowledge known as ls1tech.com comes into play. I would love to hear opinions and options on heads, cam, intake setups...My goal for the setup is 700-750hp at the crank but if I can get more I will gladly accept it (wouldn't we all?). I will try to add stuff I pick up and post pics as I go. I plan on this build taking a year or so, not including wait times for the short block from ERL. and the wait on head work....any advice is accepted, let me know what you think!

Briou

iTrader: (1)

Oh and here is the link to my build thread on the Chevelle!
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/show...327&highlight=

LS1MCSS

iTrader: (18)

The Brodix heads don't flow any better that TSP LS7 heads but cost $500 more. The TSP heads also come with better valve springs.

Gray86hatch

iTrader: (83)

First thing figure out how much $ you have to spend. A set of full tilt heads can cost $5k

What intake will fit your car?

Once you know those things it is time to talk with the person designing the cam.

Ed Curtis at Flow Tech Induction has designed all my engines. I have had very good luck with the reliability and power. I am picky about being able to drive mine and not using up valve springs. I am always on a budget and we work within that.

Making 700 at the crank should not be to much work with proper planning and matched parts.

Tim

Briou

iTrader: (1)

I am also thinking about the Mast 305 heads...I realize how much everthing can cost...I will look into the tsp heads...thanks

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

My 454 made over 700 hp with TFS 245 heads and a Fast 102. The Holley intake is probably worth 40-50 hp over the Fast. GM LS7 heads or even some good LS3 heads with the matching Holley intake should get you there easy.

Like Tim said, focus on reliability with the valve train.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...ideo-9s-n.html

Briou

iTrader: (1)

Sweet Thanks for the link I am definitely going to read through it...seeing as you made that through the fast 102 and the TFS 245 heads I wonder if I will be able to make 700hp to the wheels but I am not sure after going through a 4l80....But you and Tim hit the nail on the head...I really need to focus on reliability....I am planning on taking this car on power tour a few years from now so it will have to be able t make it the whole trip comfortably...So I am thinking to definitely stick with a hydraulic roller cam...I am looking into getting morel link bar lifters...one piece of the puzzle that I have no idea on is rockers, there seem to allot of different options....

Briou

iTrader: (1)

I have been doing a bunch of searching on what sort of rockers to get...I am going with shaft mounted rockers for sure...but not sure which...I have heard allot of good things about jesel but they are real pricy, I am also looking T&D, and Crane...

Gray86hatch

iTrader: (83)

If you plan on power tour use stockers if you can. Alum rockers break. Not if just when.

I have stockers on mine I looked into t&d and buy the time I got valve covers to fit I was going to be about $20002 deep.

Tim

Briou

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't Jesel make steel shaft mount rockers? I know they are going to be expensive, but nothing on this build is going to be cheap...

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

The Mass Moment of inertia on any roller rocker is fairly high, much higher than stock rockers. As the MOI increases the spring pressure needs to increase, which increases the need for stiffer pushrods, which then puts more stress on the lifter, it kinda snow ***** out of control.

Any head with bronze guides will require roller rockers to avoid guide wear.

I would seriously consider some worked over LS7 heads. Nice light titanium intake valves, powdered metal guides to reduce the chance of guide wear, nice light rockers, and you can run lower spring pressure which will be easier on everything.

Chris Frank had a 454 with LS7 heads and a GMPP intake make 798 hp.

Greg Good has a engine with LS7 heads just make 900 hp, and whooped up on a bunch of LSX NMCA Real Street guys in the process.

We just had some WCCH LS7 heads in a C6 Z06 with a Fast 102 run 9.86@141 on motor and 8.82@161 on the spray.

Briou

iTrader: (1)

Moment of Inertia? Now you are speaking my language....I am in my senior year studying mechanical engineering....That make sense to me....and those are definitely some impressive numbers...Obviously I still have allot of research to do, but the good news is that I have time...but you are saying shaft mount rockers aren't the way to go?

jmgak47

iTrader: (3)

Makes me happy he did the Brodix BR7 Heads for my 454 LSX build with a Holley Hi-Ram. Not that I didn't look at your Trick Flow 245 cc 454 build when planning, just figured go big or go home.

I am right there with you, a 454 needs to breath! I am having a setup of custom set of longtube headers with 4" collector and 2" primaries.

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

Any rocker arm that has a roller tip is going to have a higher MOI than a stock rocker arm.

The pushrod adjusting nut that most shaft rockers come with needlessly adds even more mass for a hydraulic roller valve train, increasing the MOI further.

Jesel has a sportsman rocker designed for hydraulic roller that doesn't have the adjusting nut, so that's an option, although it looks to be a heavy body. I'm not sure if they have one for a LS7 head. You can get them to make you something custom, with the lighter J2k body and no adjuster, probably about $1800 for those.

Briou

iTrader: (1)

So Brian, if I were to go with the roller rockers with the pushrod adjustment nut and I plan to only run to 7200rpm max what will be the first thing to let go? From what I figure it will put more stress on the lifters...may be a dumb question but just trying to educate myself. Also if I were to go with non roller style rockers, do you think the stock ls7 rockers with the Comp Cams Trunion upgrade will hold up and work with this set up?

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

The lifters or the cam core might be the first thing to have issues, it's hard to say really.

We've had tremendous success with the stock rockers. The LS7 rockers are a better design than the 15 degree rockers. They have an overall longer pivot length, less scrub at the same valve lift compared to the stock 15 degree rockers, and a wider contact patch at high lift compared to the the 15 degree rockers. I installed LS7 rockers on my TFS heads, which required relocating the rocker bolt hole, that's how much I believe in them.

Stock LS7 rockers turning about 7500 through the traps in this street car on a record setting pass.

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

FWIW: I just pulled the YT rockers out of my 427 after breaking two from two different sets. I'm running CHE rockers from Richard at WCCH which are stock rockers but with unobtainium bushings in place of the needle bearings.

Briou

iTrader: (1)

Man that is pretty impressive....do the stock rocker mounting bolts hold up or does anyone make upgraded studs? Now that I have rockers sort of figured out now onto springs....next step of research!! Thanks to everyone for all the help so far.

Briou

iTrader: (1)

How much do those che rockers run? Any has anyone heard any review of the crower stainless steel shaft mount rockers? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cr...make/chevrolet

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

I think around $500 but I really don't remember. The stock rocker bolts seem to be fine. I don't see people replacing them. BTW: Your goal of 700HP should be fairly easy with a carb intake. We did 660HP with a small cam, WCCH Stage 3 L92 heads and a chopped up FAST. The car is extremely mild and I drive it in DC rush hour traffic and take it on long trips all the time.