Ground-up LS3 427 Stroker build (N/A) questions for a road racer
12-09-2013, 06:48 PM
#21
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Wow I hadn't considered this.
So this style block is what you're referring to?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVROLET-GEN-III-5-3-LS4-IMPALA-MONTE-CARLO-ALUMINUM-FWD-SHORT-BLOCK-12569004-/321129130752?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac4c9ab00&vxp=mtr
So this style block is what you're referring to?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVROLET-GEN-III-5-3-LS4-IMPALA-MONTE-CARLO-ALUMINUM-FWD-SHORT-BLOCK-12569004-/321129130752?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac4c9ab00&vxp=mtr
12-09-2013, 07:09 PM
#23
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Jake as usual, is on point. The resleeved block could take a longer stroke crank for sure. This said, shortening the crank for road racing is best for durability.
Ok, so as far as bore size, start thinking about heads and breathing. With stock LS7 heads the 4.155 bore is as large as you'll want to go. Using flat top pistons (which you'll be doing going NA for road racing) the compression ratio with stock chambers on the 4.155 w/ 4" stroke will be in the 11.7-11.8 range. This is about as high as you'll want to go, and actually may be a little to high for what you'll be doing with it. On a 4.185 bore motor, CR would be way high, and actually be choked a bit. The 4.185 bore needs the PRC 285 LS7's at a minimum, but will work best with the Mast 305's. At this point, price starts to escalate fast! This is why I didn't go larger than the 4.155 bore. I'm having stock LS7's ported specifically for the 4.155 bore.
If you find an Ls2/3 or aluminum 5.3 buy it up! This said, don't pay more than $500 for the block period. Aluminum 5.3's will be cheaper, but they seem harder to find than you'd think. Keep in mind, spun bearings, or rusty sleeves is no biggie. You won't be using the sleeves, and bearings will be getting replaced.
Ok, so as far as bore size, start thinking about heads and breathing. With stock LS7 heads the 4.155 bore is as large as you'll want to go. Using flat top pistons (which you'll be doing going NA for road racing) the compression ratio with stock chambers on the 4.155 w/ 4" stroke will be in the 11.7-11.8 range. This is about as high as you'll want to go, and actually may be a little to high for what you'll be doing with it. On a 4.185 bore motor, CR would be way high, and actually be choked a bit. The 4.185 bore needs the PRC 285 LS7's at a minimum, but will work best with the Mast 305's. At this point, price starts to escalate fast! This is why I didn't go larger than the 4.155 bore. I'm having stock LS7's ported specifically for the 4.155 bore.
If you find an Ls2/3 or aluminum 5.3 buy it up! This said, don't pay more than $500 for the block period. Aluminum 5.3's will be cheaper, but they seem harder to find than you'd think. Keep in mind, spun bearings, or rusty sleeves is no biggie. You won't be using the sleeves, and bearings will be getting replaced.
12-10-2013, 07:32 AM
#25
Launching!
Re-sleeving a 5.3 is definitely the way to go. Not only is it cheaper, there are some "features" to a 5.3 that make it a better candidate for re-sleeving than other LS blocks. I recently purchased a 5.3 and e-mailed Steve at RED to ask a question about my block and he elaborated:
"The 5.3 or 6L truck blocks are the strongest of the production blocks with their solid main bearing bulkheads."
That said, be careful what you buy. There are a couple of aluminum 5.3 blocks you do not want. You do not want the FWD block and you do not want "12569513." The latter is a rear wheel drive 4th generation aluminum but it does "not" have siamesed sleeves and cannot be re-sleeved (ask me how I found out).
With that in mind, RED does carry some 5.3 blocks. Call or email Steve and ask him to quote you something. He is a great guy and he will get back to you.....
"The 5.3 or 6L truck blocks are the strongest of the production blocks with their solid main bearing bulkheads."
That said, be careful what you buy. There are a couple of aluminum 5.3 blocks you do not want. You do not want the FWD block and you do not want "12569513." The latter is a rear wheel drive 4th generation aluminum but it does "not" have siamesed sleeves and cannot be re-sleeved (ask me how I found out).
With that in mind, RED does carry some 5.3 blocks. Call or email Steve and ask him to quote you something. He is a great guy and he will get back to you.....
12-10-2013, 09:10 AM
#26
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Re-sleeving a 5.3 is definitely the way to go. Not only is it cheaper, there are some "features" to a 5.3 that make it a better candidate for re-sleeving than other LS blocks. I recently purchased a 5.3 and e-mailed Steve at RED to ask a question about my block and he elaborated:
"The 5.3 or 6L truck blocks are the strongest of the production blocks with their solid main bearing bulkheads."
That said, be careful what you buy. There are a couple of aluminum 5.3 blocks you do not want. You do not want the FWD block and you do not want "12569513." The latter is a rear wheel drive 4th generation aluminum but it does "not" have siamesed sleeves and cannot be re-sleeved (ask me how I found out).
With that in mind, RED does carry some 5.3 blocks. Call or email Steve and ask him to quote you something. He is a great guy and he will get back to you.....
"The 5.3 or 6L truck blocks are the strongest of the production blocks with their solid main bearing bulkheads."
That said, be careful what you buy. There are a couple of aluminum 5.3 blocks you do not want. You do not want the FWD block and you do not want "12569513." The latter is a rear wheel drive 4th generation aluminum but it does "not" have siamesed sleeves and cannot be re-sleeved (ask me how I found out).
With that in mind, RED does carry some 5.3 blocks. Call or email Steve and ask him to quote you something. He is a great guy and he will get back to you.....
+1 for this! Steve is a great guy, and great to bounce ideas off of. Class act IMO.
12-10-2013, 10:11 AM
#27
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Okay, looks like there's a few that would be around $400-500 after shipping on eBay and would just require a good bath.
Definitely flat top Wiseco pistons.
Ahh - sounds like I was getting ahead of myself with that bore size. I am leaning towards the Mast heads right now just because I really love the intake mill work but $2800 would be a tough pill to swallow for those 305's. I obviously need to do more homework on the head porting costs as it sounds like the LS7 heads would still afford me monster horsepower if I can find a cheaper pair.
So it really is sounding like the 5.3L sleeved option might be a better bet for me. Plus if I can get out to a 4.155" or 4.185" bore I would be sitting behind a boss motor.
Are there any other major price differences between the 4.155" and 4.185" bore assuming I would do the Mast heads regardless?
Thanks again for the help.
Perfect option. I'll ping him an email and see if he has some time to chat. I really would like the idea of not having to go searching high and low for a block if he has them on the shelf ready for action.
I certainly appreciate the recommendation - would love to avoid having to use a machine shop I've never used before without any first-hand accounts of their work. LS experienced shops are obviously a homerun for this project!
I'll try and keep this whole thing updated for anyone else that wants a similar setup.
Jake as usual, is on point. The resleeved block could take a longer stroke crank for sure. This said, shortening the crank for road racing is best for durability.
Ok, so as far as bore size, start thinking about heads and breathing. With stock LS7 heads the 4.155 bore is as large as you'll want to go. Using flat top pistons (which you'll be doing going NA for road racing) the compression ratio with stock chambers on the 4.155 w/ 4" stroke will be in the 11.7-11.8 range. This is about as high as you'll want to go, and actually may be a little to high for what you'll be doing with it. On a 4.185 bore motor, CR would be way high, and actually be choked a bit. The 4.185 bore needs the PRC 285 LS7's at a minimum, but will work best with the Mast 305's. At this point, price starts to escalate fast! This is why I didn't go larger than the 4.155 bore. I'm having stock LS7's ported specifically for the 4.155 bore.
If you find an Ls2/3 or aluminum 5.3 buy it up! This said, don't pay more than $500 for the block period. Aluminum 5.3's will be cheaper, but they seem harder to find than you'd think. Keep in mind, spun bearings, or rusty sleeves is no biggie. You won't be using the sleeves, and bearings will be getting replaced.
Ok, so as far as bore size, start thinking about heads and breathing. With stock LS7 heads the 4.155 bore is as large as you'll want to go. Using flat top pistons (which you'll be doing going NA for road racing) the compression ratio with stock chambers on the 4.155 w/ 4" stroke will be in the 11.7-11.8 range. This is about as high as you'll want to go, and actually may be a little to high for what you'll be doing with it. On a 4.185 bore motor, CR would be way high, and actually be choked a bit. The 4.185 bore needs the PRC 285 LS7's at a minimum, but will work best with the Mast 305's. At this point, price starts to escalate fast! This is why I didn't go larger than the 4.155 bore. I'm having stock LS7's ported specifically for the 4.155 bore.
If you find an Ls2/3 or aluminum 5.3 buy it up! This said, don't pay more than $500 for the block period. Aluminum 5.3's will be cheaper, but they seem harder to find than you'd think. Keep in mind, spun bearings, or rusty sleeves is no biggie. You won't be using the sleeves, and bearings will be getting replaced.
Ahh - sounds like I was getting ahead of myself with that bore size. I am leaning towards the Mast heads right now just because I really love the intake mill work but $2800 would be a tough pill to swallow for those 305's. I obviously need to do more homework on the head porting costs as it sounds like the LS7 heads would still afford me monster horsepower if I can find a cheaper pair.
So it really is sounding like the 5.3L sleeved option might be a better bet for me. Plus if I can get out to a 4.155" or 4.185" bore I would be sitting behind a boss motor.
Are there any other major price differences between the 4.155" and 4.185" bore assuming I would do the Mast heads regardless?
Thanks again for the help.
Re-sleeving a 5.3 is definitely the way to go. Not only is it cheaper, there are some "features" to a 5.3 that make it a better candidate for re-sleeving than other LS blocks. I recently purchased a 5.3 and e-mailed Steve at RED to ask a question about my block and he elaborated:
"The 5.3 or 6L truck blocks are the strongest of the production blocks with their solid main bearing bulkheads."
That said, be careful what you buy. There are a couple of aluminum 5.3 blocks you do not want. You do not want the FWD block and you do not want "12569513." The latter is a rear wheel drive 4th generation aluminum but it does "not" have siamesed sleeves and cannot be re-sleeved (ask me how I found out).
With that in mind, RED does carry some 5.3 blocks. Call or email Steve and ask him to quote you something. He is a great guy and he will get back to you.....
"The 5.3 or 6L truck blocks are the strongest of the production blocks with their solid main bearing bulkheads."
That said, be careful what you buy. There are a couple of aluminum 5.3 blocks you do not want. You do not want the FWD block and you do not want "12569513." The latter is a rear wheel drive 4th generation aluminum but it does "not" have siamesed sleeves and cannot be re-sleeved (ask me how I found out).
With that in mind, RED does carry some 5.3 blocks. Call or email Steve and ask him to quote you something. He is a great guy and he will get back to you.....
I certainly appreciate the recommendation - would love to avoid having to use a machine shop I've never used before without any first-hand accounts of their work. LS experienced shops are obviously a homerun for this project!
I'll try and keep this whole thing updated for anyone else that wants a similar setup.
12-10-2013, 11:15 AM
#28
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You'll find that there is no difference in sleeve pricing from the 4.125 all the way up to the 4.185 from ERL or RED.
Also, on the Mast heads, you find that the $2800 is just the initial cost to play with them. You'll want. TI intake valves, which will add to the price, you have to use their rocker stand, which add to the price, and then you want dual valve springs, which again take it up a little more. Finished out correctly the Mast will run you over 4k. PRC's are good pieces and proved good valve at 3k w/ titanium intake valves, and the 285's will work well with the 4.155 for sure.
Also, on the Mast heads, you find that the $2800 is just the initial cost to play with them. You'll want. TI intake valves, which will add to the price, you have to use their rocker stand, which add to the price, and then you want dual valve springs, which again take it up a little more. Finished out correctly the Mast will run you over 4k. PRC's are good pieces and proved good valve at 3k w/ titanium intake valves, and the 285's will work well with the 4.155 for sure.
12-11-2013, 11:53 AM
#30
If it were me, because Ive thought about doing an engine like this for a long time;
ERL Superdeck 1 5.3 ally block, 4.185 bore to start (Can go 4.2), AI ported LS7 heads, 3.622" manley super light crank (or a callies super light), GRP ally rods (or LS7's if ever found for a decent price), jesel JS3's, belt drive, DRY SUMP DRY SUMP DRY SUMP, and rev to 8K.
ERL Superdeck 1 5.3 ally block, 4.185 bore to start (Can go 4.2), AI ported LS7 heads, 3.622" manley super light crank (or a callies super light), GRP ally rods (or LS7's if ever found for a decent price), jesel JS3's, belt drive, DRY SUMP DRY SUMP DRY SUMP, and rev to 8K.
12-11-2013, 04:57 PM
#31
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You'll find that there is no difference in sleeve pricing from the 4.125 all the way up to the 4.185 from ERL or RED.
Also, on the Mast heads, you find that the $2800 is just the initial cost to play with them. You'll want. TI intake valves, which will add to the price, you have to use their rocker stand, which add to the price, and then you want dual valve springs, which again take it up a little more. Finished out correctly the Mast will run you over 4k. PRC's are good pieces and proved good valve at 3k w/ titanium intake valves, and the 285's will work well with the 4.155 for sure.
Also, on the Mast heads, you find that the $2800 is just the initial cost to play with them. You'll want. TI intake valves, which will add to the price, you have to use their rocker stand, which add to the price, and then you want dual valve springs, which again take it up a little more. Finished out correctly the Mast will run you over 4k. PRC's are good pieces and proved good valve at 3k w/ titanium intake valves, and the 285's will work well with the 4.155 for sure.
Now I just have to decide on bore. There is still this little voice in the back of my head screaming 454 but I think it will likely be a 440 all said and done. Those mast heads are sure pricey but for the 4.185" bore it seems like a really enticing option for gobs of power.
If it were me, because Ive thought about doing an engine like this for a long time;
ERL Superdeck 1 5.3 ally block, 4.185 bore to start (Can go 4.2), AI ported LS7 heads, 3.622" manley super light crank (or a callies super light), GRP ally rods (or LS7's if ever found for a decent price), jesel JS3's, belt drive, DRY SUMP DRY SUMP DRY SUMP, and rev to 8K.
ERL Superdeck 1 5.3 ally block, 4.185 bore to start (Can go 4.2), AI ported LS7 heads, 3.622" manley super light crank (or a callies super light), GRP ally rods (or LS7's if ever found for a decent price), jesel JS3's, belt drive, DRY SUMP DRY SUMP DRY SUMP, and rev to 8K.
If this was going to be a hardcore road race only car I would absolutely build something like that - but truth be told this car will only see track days at VIR among local clubs and friends. I don't intend on being competitive beyond becoming a better driver myself and enjoying my time behind the wheel. If I really decide I want to do racing again I would likely build a car that doesn't put me at a serious weight disadvantage out of the gate (cough cough heavy boat Mercedes). Nothing is more fun than a V8 that revs to 8k but it's a different direction for now.
Just the sheer fun of having a 454 would about outweigh the top end power losses I would face. Not so sure about the need to replace 315/45-16 tires every three weeks though!
Thanks again for the help.
I will hopefully be ordering the block right at the first of the year.
12-11-2013, 08:22 PM
#32
We did a super cheap dry sump on my buddies LS3. Used 4 stage nascar pump, canton sheet metal pan, used 3 gallon tank, used lines and some new ones. ATI damper and krs hub. Right around $1200 IIRC. Since I blew my wad on the chassis I'm using a vette pan and a 3 quart accusump.
12-11-2013, 08:32 PM
#33
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If it were me, because Ive thought about doing an engine like this for a long time;
ERL Superdeck 1 5.3 ally block, 4.185 bore to start (Can go 4.2), AI ported LS7 heads, 3.622" manley super light crank (or a callies super light), GRP ally rods (or LS7's if ever found for a decent price), jesel JS3's, belt drive, DRY SUMP DRY SUMP DRY SUMP, and rev to 8K.
ERL Superdeck 1 5.3 ally block, 4.185 bore to start (Can go 4.2), AI ported LS7 heads, 3.622" manley super light crank (or a callies super light), GRP ally rods (or LS7's if ever found for a decent price), jesel JS3's, belt drive, DRY SUMP DRY SUMP DRY SUMP, and rev to 8K.
12-11-2013, 08:37 PM
#34
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Awesome - I contacted Steve at RED and he was very quick to respond and is obviously extremely knowledable. Thanks again for the reference I am 99% sure I'll go the 5.3L sleeved block route.
Now I just have to decide on bore. There is still this little voice in the back of my head screaming 454 but I think it will likely be a 440 all said and done. Those mast heads are sure pricey but for the 4.185" bore it seems like a really enticing option for gobs of power.
Yes indeed - Steve mentioned this as a wise option and it is certainly something I will do to help alleviate some of the windage issues (in addition to having a catch can for both valve cover lines.
Super radical. Would rev insanely fast. What all is entailed in going dry sump? I had not gotten to that point yet but it's something I am certainly interested in. At the least I plan on having a baffle/trap door style oil pan to help control flow.
If this was going to be a hardcore road race only car I would absolutely build something like that - but truth be told this car will only see track days at VIR among local clubs and friends. I don't intend on being competitive beyond becoming a better driver myself and enjoying my time behind the wheel. If I really decide I want to do racing again I would likely build a car that doesn't put me at a serious weight disadvantage out of the gate (cough cough heavy boat Mercedes). Nothing is more fun than a V8 that revs to 8k but it's a different direction for now.
Just the sheer fun of having a 454 would about outweigh the top end power losses I would face. Not so sure about the need to replace 315/45-16 tires every three weeks though!
Thanks again for the help.
I will hopefully be ordering the block right at the first of the year.
Now I just have to decide on bore. There is still this little voice in the back of my head screaming 454 but I think it will likely be a 440 all said and done. Those mast heads are sure pricey but for the 4.185" bore it seems like a really enticing option for gobs of power.
Yes indeed - Steve mentioned this as a wise option and it is certainly something I will do to help alleviate some of the windage issues (in addition to having a catch can for both valve cover lines.
Super radical. Would rev insanely fast. What all is entailed in going dry sump? I had not gotten to that point yet but it's something I am certainly interested in. At the least I plan on having a baffle/trap door style oil pan to help control flow.
If this was going to be a hardcore road race only car I would absolutely build something like that - but truth be told this car will only see track days at VIR among local clubs and friends. I don't intend on being competitive beyond becoming a better driver myself and enjoying my time behind the wheel. If I really decide I want to do racing again I would likely build a car that doesn't put me at a serious weight disadvantage out of the gate (cough cough heavy boat Mercedes). Nothing is more fun than a V8 that revs to 8k but it's a different direction for now.
Just the sheer fun of having a 454 would about outweigh the top end power losses I would face. Not so sure about the need to replace 315/45-16 tires every three weeks though!
Thanks again for the help.
I will hopefully be ordering the block right at the first of the year.
