D9HP

All,

I had a thread detailing my ideal build revolving around all brand new parts as shown here.

After adding things up it seems like the budget will drag the project out a little longer than I want so I am considering a shorter term plan.

My more reasonable goal is 500RWHP with a used T56 for under $10k as opposed to my original goal of 650-675RWHP with a brand new T56/T6060 for $20-25k.

I would really appreciate some input on this idea.

My thinking is to buy a used L92 dropout package like http://www.ebay.com/itm/07-08-L92-6-2-LITER-COMPLETE-ESCALADE-DENALI-DROPOUT-ENGINE-MOTOR-135K-DROP-OUT-/151010501929?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2328ed6529&vxp=mtr.

I'll rip that block down and hopefully I can get away with a chemical bath and a hone job and no real machining necessary.

I've read mixed things about using cam bearings for multiple builds...thoughts here?

If the cylinders are in good shape and not OOR (no gouging or ridge) and the crank end play checks out okay is to forego the machine shop and do a simple ball hone de-glaze?

Goal is 11.3:1 compression ratio for good clean 93 octane. Not sure if I need to deck the heads for that?

Major upgrade items

• Stroker kit (4" stroke) with new rods and pistons sized to original bore after de-glaze or new bore/hone if required (4.070" bore max)
• New camshaft and hydraulic lifters (something like the Torquer 110 or more aggressive, even)
• Comp Cams rocker arm trunion upgrade kit (is this necessary?)
• New intake valves and all new valve springs
• DIY Cylinder head cleaning/mild porting and new ARP bolts
• LS3 intake manifold and new cable throttle body (both DIY ported)
• New oil pump, double roller timing chain, and gaskets/seals
• 1-7/8" long tube headers

Questions:
Are the stock L92 injectors and coil packs going to suffice?
Can I convert to a cable driven throttle body without any PCM/ECU issues?
Is there anyway I can get a tune on this ECU that would enable me to at least fire it up and drive the car to a tuning shop without investing in an expensive tuner?

Is there anything major I am missing? Is $10k realistic assuming a $2k donor transmission?

Street manners are not a huge concern. If I can't stand driving the car I'll pony up the money for the Jenvey ITB setup to calm down the monster cam choice. Cam suggestions welcome.

What kind of power do you think I can make with listed setup.

Many thanks!

-D

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

I just totaled my 577RWHP 530RWT Darton Sleeved L92/LS3 headed build.

I am going to the parting out the car including the engine. The heads and lifters where just redone with Manley springs and Johnson link bar lifters. The bottom end has about 5k street only miles and the heads have 130 miles.

It's within driving distance for you if you're interested.

Long development and build thread in sig.

redtan

iTrader: (5)

You don't need a 4" stroke rotating assembly to get to 500rwhp on the LS3.

Hand port the heads and intake, good size camshaft with the regular bolt ons should get you there easily in an M6 car.

87silverbullet

iTrader: (11)

OP, I would buy this guy's motor^^^^ and save you self the headaches.

Lockdown99ss

iTrader: (1)

+1... Unless you are wanting to do more work.

D9HP

Are you parting out the engine?

I would be interested in the block most certainly. I do not have the cash to buy an engine like that out right, unfortunately.

Cheers.

Right - I am interested in the torque of a stroker build, however.

The DIY aspect certainly has a lot to do with this project. I am building the engine for a custom car I am building over the next few years.

LSx Marty

so far I've been looking at the same issue.. cheap, light, horsepower... all of the 7.0 6.2 and even 6.0 blocks out there are north of 1000 for cores. the scrap yard wants 4500+ for a 150k plus engine that is going to be used for nothing more than a case for all the goodies i need to put in it to make the power i want. so this is what i have come up with... find a 5.3 or 6.0 core 100-200 bucks, have it sleeved 4.125" bore. brodix br7 heads and a scat 4.125" stroker kit. I've got a deal on those =D... good think scat is in my back yard and the owner visits the same car shows i do... anyway... my budget was less than 9500 for a 700+hp long block. rest of the odds and ends you can find everywhere for pennies... i.e. covers, coils, ect.

let me know how it goes. thanks!

D9HP

I haven't been able to find a 5.3L block (only seeing full short blocks) for anything under $350 before shipping. After having it shipped to me, cleaned, then shipped to ERL I'm looking at almost $3k. Now that would enable me to run a 454 but then a tremendous amount of money is required to actually utilize those cubes - namely expensive heads.

Great budget for that sort of power, seriously. It's wild to think about that price tag for power like that...can't imagine going back in the 1960s and telling people that's all it would cost.

My other concern is that the "odds and ends" really cost thousands based on the numbers I have seen on eBay and the forums. The ECU and wiring harness in addition to all the covers and re-usable sensors really added up in my research.

Even with a near-death L92 and much more conservative HP goal I am still thinking keeping it under $10k with a transmission is going to be a battle.

It really will depend heavily on the amount of money I have to drop at the machine shop when I go. I am hoping I can get away with a minimal amount of work to the bores and nothing on the crank journals.

A three angle valve job will be a must after I do some very light hand porting (mainly exhaust side) to the L92 heads.

Just for reference for everyone else and this is open to critique so please do - here's all the items I feel that I will be able to use with a simple cleaning and or electrical validity:

Block
Heads
Possibly exhaust valves (not likely)
Rockers after trunion upgrade
Rear cover after seal replacement
Camshaft retainer plate
Oil pan
Oil pickup tube
Valley cover
Knock sensors
Camshaft sensor
Crankshaft sensor
Oil pressure sending unit
Coil packs
Valve covers
Flywheel
Dipstick
Alternator
Starter
Power steering pump
ECU/PCM and harness

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I am hoping to make a bit of money selling the truck intake, AC compressor, and stock rotating assembly + camshaft to make a little extra money back (maybe $500). That should at least pay for the LS3 intake and fuel rail. Then new 50lb+ injectors, stroker rotating assembly, new camshaft, VVT delete kit, and valvetrain needs should be the new major expenses.

I know I would make 100HP+ more by bumping up to a 427-454 and LS7 heads but I just cannot justify the massive price hike I am looking at when buying everything separately and or new.

Still open to feedback. I have been seeing a ton of information on LS3 camshafts and am currently leaning towards the Katech torquer for the LS3 or the TSP 231/236 cam.

Thanks again for the input,
D

Uneverknow

iTrader: (1)

I may have missed something but cheapest way to 500 is nitrous!

Anthony Phillips

turbo it !!!!!

D9HP

NOS would do it but I don't want any power adders and my goal for this project is to keep the weight to a minimum.

N/A only!

I also want to have a 4" stroke on whatever I do for the added torque. I know a stock stroke and ~8k RPM would be better for a pure road racer but this car will also see spirited drives up in the mountains where the torque at lower RPMs will be really fun.

Thanks!

lil john

good heads tfs /afr FAST intake and pat g cam..
there is nothing this SIMPLE on the planet.

87silverbullet

iTrader: (11)

3600 is alot for a 136k mile pull out. You could get this and pop it in there as is with some good ported heads and a custom cam. You should reach your 500 rwhp goal since you have a 6 spd manual.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...ngine-phr.html

As far as the DIY thing, ive been down that road once before and its not as easy as " I'll just order a stroker kit and be ready to roll". You will be nickeled and dimed to death wiyh all the lil stuff.

D9HP

Agree on it being a lot - but the aluminum engines carry a premium from what I can tell.

I am not interested in using a used stock short block. I have been down that road before with old 350 blocks and that's still pretty steep as I can get the LS3 block for under $1500 brand new.

I know that it's not as easy as just throwing in a stroker kit, which is precisely the reason I am no longer building the engine from scratch. I started adding up reasonable costs to build something like this if I literally didn't have anything (including every tool you'd ever want and I already have a stout garage from my 4x4 days). It just isn't practical. I know I can possibly reach 500RWHP from the stock short block but I haven't seen very many people get there and it be documented. Lots of people saying they do but no proof. I am also not chasing the number so much as a nice solid high HP engine from 3k-6.8k but I know what 400BHP vs. 500BHP does for the car...so that being said I think I have a way easier chance of reaching it with 414+ci.

The goal of the LS3 block is that I could eventually have it resleeved and use the same crank and rods if I ever decide to move to LS7 heads.

It's not a cheap game to play - but the LS is the cheapest lb/HP option I believe I have that's going to offer 550-600CHP.

I appreciate the input though - hadn't looked at the LS1tech classifieds much.

Definitely has to be aluminum though - I am spending a lot of time and money removing weight from the car so 100lbs in the nose is an obvious choice.

Thanks,
D

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Thought about a turbo? The new gen3/4 motors are a far cry from a gen1 SBC. Bone stock shortblock with a small turbo would make well beyond your goal and half the price or less depending on how handy you are.

20k for 675hp makes me laugh... Made well over that on a JY $220 5.3 on all OEM parts. Not suggesting you need to go that cheap... but you sure as hell wouldn't be into it 8k for the motor/turbo setup.

D9HP

Yes, I have considered a number of other options. I love turbo builds so it was a serious consideration.

I am mainly wanting to stay N/A due to weight. I want to keep the car as light as possible. $20k for 675RWHP isn't too crazy when it's a N/A build.

I think 560-600RWHP will be had for about $10k based on my current plans with the option to get a lot more out of the build later on with a little more money. I am building the engine to handle a power adder later on if I ever needed it.

The plan I have now is to source a 5.3L aluminum block for as cheap as possible and have it sleeved to 4.185" and run a 4.25" stroke for a 468ci engine. Realistically I am not going to be tracking this car enough to warrant a full out race build and I want to be able to street this car a few times a month in the milder seasons of NC (which is ALL of them).

TSP sourced rotating assembly. I'll likely get used LS3 heads and intake and can save for Mast 305 LS7 heads after the car is built.

I really want a Jenvey ITB intake but the cost is a huge factor...but it would allow me to get an absolutely wild cam and still be able to street the car.

But just the Mast heads and Jenvey intake cost more than the entire engine will be otherwise...so it's just difficult to justify.

I know it's not the cheapest route to my goal even with the used parts but I will at least have a well built engine and the only thing I will need to swap out is the cam, heads, and intake to move up another 150HP once the bank account says it's okay.

Thanks for the comments!

427zm

iTrader: (9)

If you are doing the install, you can come close to 10k for JUST the motor. As you've seen my build D9, if you wanted to mimic it, with a LS2 block you had, and reuse a BUNCH of LS parts, find a cheap used LS7 intake, and cheaply. scrounge up the other things needed, you could get close to 10k. ERL shortblock ($5500), PRC LS7 285's ($3000), intake and other stuff (budget $1500), it could be close to done.

Briou

iTrader: (1)

Man this sounds allot like my build, but I haven't really been trying to budget...I am just now getting ready to order my short block and all totaled its going to be about $6500 from ERL...stuff adds up really really fast if you aren't careful

D9HP

I am following what you are doing very closely - the heads are the big price adder and I am considering waiting around until I can afford something that is outstanding like the PRC or the Mast.

I am reading a great deal still and I am finally set with the 468ci idea. It will likely be another year before I buy the heads and then I will finish the build all at once.

I am putting this in a 1975 450SLC that needs plenty of other work. All the installation will be done by me in my recently renovated garage space. I'll certainly have a build thread once I have the car moved in.

I am going to build up the short block myself and will either use RED or ERL for the block. I want the experience of building it from the block out. I want to say I torqued every bolt on the car once I am finished - not actually going to happen but I want to at least learn as much as I can in the process.


I am following your build as well. I absolutely love that intake.

I will continue to follow your progress. My cousin has a 454 BB Chevelle and I showed him your thread. He was jealous, no questions about it.

Look forward to seeing you both get moving along and get these in the car!

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Gotcha, more power to you. Don't see many NA setups making big power these days. Have you seen the OBX ITB setup for $1300?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBX-ITB-INDIVIDUAL-THROTTLE-BODY-Chevy-Corvette-LS1-LS2-LS6-SFD52-ITB-Kit-/161191750169?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2587c6ea19&vxp=mtr