Cam curiosity!
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Teching In
Joined: Apr 2014
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From: good ol' texas
Cam curiosity! This is the issue im having right now. i want to cam my automatic 05 corvette c6 but in all reallity im not trying to gain the power from the cam itself, i just want that badass lope sound. the power will come from a procharger, but i dont know what cam i should go with, and even with a small cam will i need to get the whole package or can i just get the cam by itself. i need yall's help.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,503
Likes: 177
From: ELSA, South TEXAS (956) 802-7700
Your stock springs should be good for 560 lift so cam choice is quite limited to like a tr220 with 114 lsa to work with procharger and with 551 lift.
However, if spending money on cam, i would invest in pac1218 .600 lift springs and go with a nicer bigger cam to gain more from cam expense and power overall.
Rob (956) 802 7700
However, if spending money on cam, i would invest in pac1218 .600 lift springs and go with a nicer bigger cam to gain more from cam expense and power overall.
Rob (956) 802 7700
OP, just get a blower grind from Speed inc or if you want the bad *** lope go with the Brute Speed blower cam. It has a nasty lope and makes very good power. No matter how you figure it you are better off with cam that is meant for FI because then it makes the combo more efficient to make power so you need less boost to make the power.
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Contact Martin Smallwood @ www.TickPerformance.com and have a professional spec you a cam. His results speak for themselves.
I would run some single beehives like a pac 1218 or 1518 or maybe a little more pressure from a Manley beehive and a cam designed for the procharger unit. We have a custom cam service that is cheaper than most off shelf cams. We can get you the cam you want and still gain a good amount of power. The sound can actually be dialed in with tuning as well. You can make a stock cam chop like a **** if you are good enough at tuning, but who wants that?
Please let us know if we can be of more help!
Please let us know if we can be of more help!
If you want to go beehive, a PAC 1519 would be a better spring with the boost on the backside of the valve. It has a little more seat pressure than a 1218 or 1518.
If you ever see the damage a beehive causes when it breaks, you will stick to a double spring forever.
If you ever see the damage a beehive causes when it breaks, you will stick to a double spring forever.
I have seen many beehives break and be just fine. They normally rolled inside of the next coil and caused no issues. I had that happen on my own personal car. Doesnt make me shy away from a beehive at all. That is a matter of opinion only. Duals can do the same thing as the inner spring doesnt double the spring pressure, only contributes to it.
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You must be lucky then because the ones I see ended up dropping a valve and putting a hole in a piston or tear up a cylinder wall. With the dual spring if either breaks the other one catches it and you will notice it from the the lack of power and misfire on that cylinder in the upper rpm.
Yes, it is matter of opinion but which scenario would you rather have?
Yes, it is matter of opinion but which scenario would you rather have?
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Verdad Gallardo I am not one for pushing the envelope at all, but I have personally seen even stock cars and trucks that this happened to with stock springs and they were driven so long it fouled the plugs and they had no issues with the valves even kissing the pistons.
Saying that it WILL blow up is prob too general a statement. It is more likely yes, but alot of times a cam is run on a car without knowing anything about PTV and what clearance there is, so if the spring collapses just a bit, then it is dead. Is it the springs fault then or the installer?
I remember a while back when a customer brought a cam into a shop and they didnt want to install it. The guy kept on and kept on, so they installed the camshaft and tried to rotate the engine over to put the rocker arms on I believe and they could not. The cam would make a noise when they turned it on every cyl. The exhaust valve was just barely hitting the piston then (with no hyd pressure on the lifters even). They called the company and it swore up and down what the PTV was and they were way off. When measured it was less than .030 on the intake and of course hitting on the exhaust. YET this cam was so popular and ran on MANY cars of this combo. Is it likely JUST THAT ONE CAR had an issue? Very small chance. It is likely that the others may have issues, but the owners/installers dont know for many reasons, including mostly not measuring for correct pushrod length. That likely saves more combos than dual springs would.
Most of that is fact with some of my opinion thrown in at the end, but still, is there an argument for it?
Saying that it WILL blow up is prob too general a statement. It is more likely yes, but alot of times a cam is run on a car without knowing anything about PTV and what clearance there is, so if the spring collapses just a bit, then it is dead. Is it the springs fault then or the installer?
I remember a while back when a customer brought a cam into a shop and they didnt want to install it. The guy kept on and kept on, so they installed the camshaft and tried to rotate the engine over to put the rocker arms on I believe and they could not. The cam would make a noise when they turned it on every cyl. The exhaust valve was just barely hitting the piston then (with no hyd pressure on the lifters even). They called the company and it swore up and down what the PTV was and they were way off. When measured it was less than .030 on the intake and of course hitting on the exhaust. YET this cam was so popular and ran on MANY cars of this combo. Is it likely JUST THAT ONE CAR had an issue? Very small chance. It is likely that the others may have issues, but the owners/installers dont know for many reasons, including mostly not measuring for correct pushrod length. That likely saves more combos than dual springs would.
Most of that is fact with some of my opinion thrown in at the end, but still, is there an argument for it?
No not true. I dont like any one spring over the other really. I am giving facts and more backstory and theory to each side. Saying a single will mess up when it breaks and stay away from them is an opinion and seems pretty judgemental. MAST uses beehive springs on their ls7 heads even. They are good springs and work well if your budget cannot afford duals.
I did not even mention the zombie horse theory of spring/retainer weight etc as that part I dont really buy in to 100%.
Just because I defend my ideas doesnt mean I am arguing. I believe customers need a broader picture so they can choose. You saying what you did gives singles a bad connotation that, in my experience and many others is not always true.
I did not even mention the zombie horse theory of spring/retainer weight etc as that part I dont really buy in to 100%.
Just because I defend my ideas doesnt mean I am arguing. I believe customers need a broader picture so they can choose. You saying what you did gives singles a bad connotation that, in my experience and many others is not always true.
The stock springs wouldn't even control a Tr220. He would run into a valve float really quick. The procharger would make it even worse with the boost on the back side of the intake valve.
OP, just get a blower grind from Speed inc or if you want the bad *** lope go with the Brute Speed blower cam. It has a nasty lope and makes very good power. No matter how you figure it you are better off with cam that is meant for FI because then it makes the combo more efficient to make power so you need less boost to make the power.
OP, just get a blower grind from Speed inc or if you want the bad *** lope go with the Brute Speed blower cam. It has a nasty lope and makes very good power. No matter how you figure it you are better off with cam that is meant for FI because then it makes the combo more efficient to make power so you need less boost to make the power.
http://shop.brutespeed.com/Brute-Spe...d-Camshaft.htm
Here is a link to this camshaft with valvespring, pushrod and timing chain options. Bob
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ATI ProCharger and Moser Sales 260 672-2076
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E-mail: brutespeed@gmail.comob@brutespeed.com
https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
ATI ProCharger and Moser Sales 260 672-2076
PM's disabled, please e-mail me
E-mail: brutespeed@gmail.comob@brutespeed.com
https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
No not true. I dont like any one spring over the other really. I am giving facts and more backstory and theory to each side. Saying a single will mess up when it breaks and stay away from them is an opinion and seems pretty judgemental. MAST uses beehive springs on their ls7 heads even. They are good springs and work well if your budget cannot afford duals.
I did not even mention the zombie horse theory of spring/retainer weight etc as that part I dont really buy in to 100%.
Just because I defend my ideas doesnt mean I am arguing. I believe customers need a broader picture so they can choose. You saying what you did gives singles a bad connotation that, in my experience and many others is not always true.
I did not even mention the zombie horse theory of spring/retainer weight etc as that part I dont really buy in to 100%.
Just because I defend my ideas doesnt mean I am arguing. I believe customers need a broader picture so they can choose. You saying what you did gives singles a bad connotation that, in my experience and many others is not always true.
. I don't care what Mast uses. Tell me who uses those springs on a MAST head? They are .600 lift and 140 on the seat. I bet if you ask MAST how many heads they sell with those springs it would be lil to none. Plus they only sell it with the small bore LS7 head. Like I said, I like doubles. Leave it at that.
Why don't you ask Bob@Brute speed why he uses doubles on his blower cam and not a single?
Ask TSP why all their PRC heads only come with duals?
Ask Livernois Motorsports why their heads come with duals?
There has to be a reason. Ask them and get back with me and let me know.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,503
Likes: 177
From: ELSA, South TEXAS (956) 802-7700
Some people prefer double to rule on safe side due to what theyve heard, read, and for reliability.
I prefer singles for light and valvetrain stability. With first cams i used under 600 lift n/a, i went with pac 1218s due to their reputation for not breaking and reliability. Now with 600 lift cam n/a and ls3 heads, im still running singles but in my opinion the best...psi ml1511s with ti retainers.
Now them psi ml1511s run 250 so they must run that high for a reason right?
I prefer singles for light and valvetrain stability. With first cams i used under 600 lift n/a, i went with pac 1218s due to their reputation for not breaking and reliability. Now with 600 lift cam n/a and ls3 heads, im still running singles but in my opinion the best...psi ml1511s with ti retainers.
Now them psi ml1511s run 250 so they must run that high for a reason right?
Mast uses those springs on their heads. They even set them up to use on their engines and customers setups. Mast uses them on their turn key engines. They sell them on nearly every head. That is their 660-700 lift spring. They use a single Pac beehive. How do I know? Because I have sold a few sets in the past few weeks. One of them being a Large bore LS7 6 bolt head. Maybe you should have asked...
I never said one was better and to only use singles. You were ruling out singles PERIOD. I am giving the customer the option and there seem to be very valid arguments/points for a single. There are many cam gurus so to speak that like to set up a beehive on their cams for various reasons.
When I talked about singles breaking even they were on stock vehicles. Like I said before, there are MANY unknowns that are never factored in when someone says a single broke and it screwed up my engine so ill never run them again.
I am not personally bashing you at all like you appear to be taking this.
I never said one was better and to only use singles. You were ruling out singles PERIOD. I am giving the customer the option and there seem to be very valid arguments/points for a single. There are many cam gurus so to speak that like to set up a beehive on their cams for various reasons.
When I talked about singles breaking even they were on stock vehicles. Like I said before, there are MANY unknowns that are never factored in when someone says a single broke and it screwed up my engine so ill never run them again.
I am not personally bashing you at all like you appear to be taking this.
Read this thread again. You're talking down to me like I don't know anything and that you are the mighty ls1tech sponsor. You keep saying what I post is opinion and yours is fact even after I told you what I have seen.
You're as dense as a brick.
Yes, I do rule out singles because of what I have seen. You like them from what you have seen.
Ok got it, I understand it. Follow you on your point. Don't really care anymore.
Go talk to wall over there or something.
You're as dense as a brick.
Yes, I do rule out singles because of what I have seen. You like them from what you have seen.
Ok got it, I understand it. Follow you on your point. Don't really care anymore.
Go talk to wall over there or something.
You are taking it as I am talking down to you. I am not. I am not mighty either. You dont show any respect my way in fact I am pretty sure you target every post I have as long as you are in the thread. It is your opinion to stay away. I never said what you saw wasnt a fact that the engines broke, but why the broke could be in question.
I did prove that MAST and many others use the singles even though you were belligerent about all these other companies using dual springs on all their heads telling me to go investigate. I can be dense, but this is the pot calling the kettle black isnt it? You want to get nasty and argumentative and then when i retort you complain that a mighty sponsor is calling you out on something or has a different opinion than you do.
I dont just surf the forums looking for sales and read threads. I go out there and i do this stuff nearly every day also. For myself and for customers. And trying to give customers all the options and facts, I sure wont please everyone, but you take it to heart every single time.
To the OP, I apologize for making such a big deal out of this, but as has been talked about ad nausium, you can use a single spring and be fine. Or you can use a dual spring and be fine. Just make sure when you choose a spring, you get a high quality one. They dont have to be expensive, but just dont use an LS6 (yellow) spring because the lift is under .570 and they are cheap. The 1218 from Pac is what I would use in that case or any of their other variants (although they can get up there in price) if you want more pressure, or the singles from Manley or PSI even. I have not ran enough of the PSI to tell you one way or the other on them, but alot of people seem to like them.
I did prove that MAST and many others use the singles even though you were belligerent about all these other companies using dual springs on all their heads telling me to go investigate. I can be dense, but this is the pot calling the kettle black isnt it? You want to get nasty and argumentative and then when i retort you complain that a mighty sponsor is calling you out on something or has a different opinion than you do.
I dont just surf the forums looking for sales and read threads. I go out there and i do this stuff nearly every day also. For myself and for customers. And trying to give customers all the options and facts, I sure wont please everyone, but you take it to heart every single time.
To the OP, I apologize for making such a big deal out of this, but as has been talked about ad nausium, you can use a single spring and be fine. Or you can use a dual spring and be fine. Just make sure when you choose a spring, you get a high quality one. They dont have to be expensive, but just dont use an LS6 (yellow) spring because the lift is under .570 and they are cheap. The 1218 from Pac is what I would use in that case or any of their other variants (although they can get up there in price) if you want more pressure, or the singles from Manley or PSI even. I have not ran enough of the PSI to tell you one way or the other on them, but alot of people seem to like them.
Last edited by COSPEED2; May 26, 2014 at 03:15 PM.
/sigh on topic....a good spring is always a good idea over stock when going to an aftermarket cam. I too prefer a dual for they added safety. No reason to go crazy on the seat pressure unless you are running crazy ramp rates and/or heavy valves.
If you want lope you can all but throw emissions out the window. Talk to Martin or any of the other great cam guys. But a procharger cam will look something like x/x+10* duration. As much lift as you can and 0* or less overlap. 0* overlap will have a lope and still be relatively tame on the street. Note I have a very low tolerance for poor street manners.
If you want lope you can all but throw emissions out the window. Talk to Martin or any of the other great cam guys. But a procharger cam will look something like x/x+10* duration. As much lift as you can and 0* or less overlap. 0* overlap will have a lope and still be relatively tame on the street. Note I have a very low tolerance for poor street manners.
Richard at WCCH gave me some interesting advice on procharged setups with LS3 heads and even on maggies ones. He told me he has always seen them perform the best on a 112 at most mid and higher durations you see now days. Dont need a huge split but if cut on a 112 they will perform. Even though that can definitely produce overlap esp in larger durations, I am just passing on his info. You dont have to have 0* of overlap to make power on a supercharged/turbocharged application, and sometimes having a little bit can help.
Here is your contradiction. On you first quote you say what I have is opinion and you have facts. Then on the second quote you go against what you just posted and say that you didn't say what I posted was the facts. Stevie Wonder can see this.
You say you proved with MAST and others but you only proved with MAST not others.
Now there is an opinion if I ever saw one.
I dont just surf the forums looking for sales and read threads. I go out there and i do this stuff nearly every day also. For myself and for customers.
I tell you what. Forget everything I said. Just leave me be. I'll erase all my posts in this whole thread. I'm done with this.