Youngblood16

Hey all, I have been trying to help a friend choose which cylinder heads to put on his 440ci build. Hes getting a 440ci short block, running pump gas and N/A.

Option 1. Trick Flows
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...ylinder-heads/

Option 2. AFRs
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=76_112\

EDIT-NOT ADVERTISING EITHER COMPANY JUST LOOKING AT THE PROVIDED FLOW DATA

From what I can see, the Trick Flows and AFRs have about the same flow numbers on the intake side, AFR is better in the beginning at .2 lift, and at the end at .6 lift... while the trick flows take the extreme middle range. The same goes for the exhaust valve, but the TFs DESTROY the AFRs in the mid range.

HOWEVER- one head was done on a 4.155 bore(AFR), while the other was done on a 4.185(TF). So does bore size have any affect on flow data? And also, other than altering the cubic inches of the engine, do the combustion chamber volume affect cylinder head flow? From what I can see it doesn't specify which cc size they used for the AFRs, and the only TFs offered from TEA are 70cc, where as on the trick flow page they are 64cc

AFR
pros- larger intake valve
cons- less mid-range

Trick Flow- better valve angle (13.5 degrees) better exhaust flow
cons- smaller intake valve

Thanks guys!
Matt

Tuskyz28

Good questions here!! Bump before I go into work.

dogsballs

Need to think as package, crunch some numbers on valve size, choke points, cam lift and rpm. Not nessarilly about getting head with highest flow figures.

BOLO

iTrader: (40)

I wouldn't stop there and choose between just those two. There are so many options out there. Take a look at Chris Frank @Frankenstein Racing heads with his RHS or Brodix, Mast Motorsports, WCCH, just to name a few.

Tuskyz28

Rhs, brodix, mast all a make great heads. They are large heads tho.... 285-305 cc heads. I have seen some huge rectangle heads not do so well even on a big bore motor and do better with a smaller cathedral port head. Bigger isn't always better...

STAR

iTrader: (1)

Straight out of the box I will give the edge to Trickflow. They seem to produce slightly more power.

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

What are the goals with the combo? I saw you mentioned pump gas N/A. Is the short block built already? If that's the case what are the pistons set up for? Valve angle & size/location? You might be further ahead running a ported rec head if it's just a street car/driver to save on expense. If your looking for a big hp head for a 440 cui it needs to be bigger than what you are looking at. There is no reason to purchase an aftermarket casting unless you are running a significant power adder.

Tuskyz28

Goals is to drive that car 4-5 days out the week...... runs 10s on motor on a 17 inch tire with a 6 speed.

Youngblood16

Livernoise- the trick flows have 13.5 valve degree where as the afrs have the standard LS 15 degrees. Trick flow intake valve size is 2.1 and the afrs are 2.16 i believe. However, even with the smaller valve the trick flows still flow a few cfm more than the afrs

Youngblood16

And i sincerely apologize for my computer spelling your name wrong livernois

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

Do you already have pistons? Are they shelf part#'s
You mentioned this was a 440cui Is this a big stroke small bore or the other way around?

Youngblood16

Tuskys gonna have to chime in on that one....

Tuskyz28

Pistons go be made for a compression around 11:8.1 max .... pump gas friendly. Bore will be 4.185 and stroke will be 4.000

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so you do not have slugs yet. That's good, now you don't have to paint your self in the corner with cylinder head choice or modifying what you have. With that large bore 4.185" you can benefit from a large valve.

Youngblood16

The problem we're facing here though is that both the AFR 245s and the Trick Flow 245s are cast differently with two distinctly different features:

The AFRs have a larger intake valve at 2.16 vs the Trick Flows 2.10.

However, the Trick Flow heads benefit from the 13.5 degree valves, where-as the AFRs have the stock LSx valve degree of 15.

So its a toss up, between whether the larger intake valve or the better valve angle. Looking at the flow data, the Trick Flows flow better throughout the entire mid-range for the intake, and completely outflow the AFRs on exhaust. the afrs flow better at .200 lift and .600 lift on the intake though.
What do you all think?

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

These on a bore that size;nice steep valve angle good airflow
LIVERNOIS MOTORSPORTS STAGE 3 LSX/LS7 HEADS
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...LS7-HEADS.html

Jimbo1367

Cha-ching

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

The guys is already looking for aftermarket castings. He is already out of the ported O.E. cost category. These are not the DR's that require shaft rocker though if someone has not addressed rockers they may be a better option.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Are you needing to stay cathedral? Hot Rod magazine tested all the cathedrals back a year or so back. Unfortunately the PRC 247cc head wasnt available then so we were only able to send the 237cc version to the test. Checkout the results. I think you'll find a lot of answers to your questions....

The PRC 247 would work really good in your application!!

Youngblood16

Yeah we forgot to mention, he was planning and/or really wants cathedrals. Torque=fun he says