Which heads!>?!/!
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
From: Fairfax, VA
Which heads!>?!/! Hey all, I have been trying to help a friend choose which cylinder heads to put on his 440ci build. Hes getting a 440ci short block, running pump gas and N/A.
Option 1. Trick Flows
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...ylinder-heads/
Option 2. AFRs
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=76_112\
EDIT-NOT ADVERTISING EITHER COMPANY JUST LOOKING AT THE PROVIDED FLOW DATA
From what I can see, the Trick Flows and AFRs have about the same flow numbers on the intake side, AFR is better in the beginning at .2 lift, and at the end at .6 lift... while the trick flows take the extreme middle range. The same goes for the exhaust valve, but the TFs DESTROY the AFRs in the mid range.
HOWEVER- one head was done on a 4.155 bore(AFR), while the other was done on a 4.185(TF). So does bore size have any affect on flow data? And also, other than altering the cubic inches of the engine, do the combustion chamber volume affect cylinder head flow? From what I can see it doesn't specify which cc size they used for the AFRs, and the only TFs offered from TEA are 70cc, where as on the trick flow page they are 64cc
AFR
pros- larger intake valve
cons- less mid-range
Trick Flow- better valve angle (13.5 degrees) better exhaust flow
cons- smaller intake valve
Thanks guys!
Matt
Option 1. Trick Flows
http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...ylinder-heads/
Option 2. AFRs
http://www.airflowresearch.com/index.php?cPath=76_112\
EDIT-NOT ADVERTISING EITHER COMPANY JUST LOOKING AT THE PROVIDED FLOW DATA
From what I can see, the Trick Flows and AFRs have about the same flow numbers on the intake side, AFR is better in the beginning at .2 lift, and at the end at .6 lift... while the trick flows take the extreme middle range. The same goes for the exhaust valve, but the TFs DESTROY the AFRs in the mid range.
HOWEVER- one head was done on a 4.155 bore(AFR), while the other was done on a 4.185(TF). So does bore size have any affect on flow data? And also, other than altering the cubic inches of the engine, do the combustion chamber volume affect cylinder head flow? From what I can see it doesn't specify which cc size they used for the AFRs, and the only TFs offered from TEA are 70cc, where as on the trick flow page they are 64cc
AFR
pros- larger intake valve
cons- less mid-range
Trick Flow- better valve angle (13.5 degrees) better exhaust flow
cons- smaller intake valve
Thanks guys!
Matt
I wouldn't stop there and choose between just those two. There are so many options out there. Take a look at Chris Frank @Frankenstein Racing heads with his RHS or Brodix, Mast Motorsports, WCCH, just to name a few.
TECH Veteran
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,893
Likes: 703
From: Mississippi
Rhs, brodix, mast all a make great heads. They are large heads tho.... 285-305 cc heads. I have seen some huge rectangle heads not do so well even on a big bore motor and do better with a smaller cathedral port head. Bigger isn't always better...
What are the goals with the combo? I saw you mentioned pump gas N/A. Is the short block built already? If that's the case what are the pistons set up for? Valve angle & size/location? You might be further ahead running a ported rec head if it's just a street car/driver to save on expense. If your looking for a big hp head for a 440 cui it needs to be bigger than what you are looking at. There is no reason to purchase an aftermarket casting unless you are running a significant power adder.
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Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
From: Fairfax, VA
Livernoise- the trick flows have 13.5 valve degree where as the afrs have the standard LS 15 degrees. Trick flow intake valve size is 2.1 and the afrs are 2.16 i believe. However, even with the smaller valve the trick flows still flow a few cfm more than the afrs
Ok, so you do not have slugs yet. That's good, now you don't have to paint your self in the corner with cylinder head choice or modifying what you have. With that large bore 4.185" you can benefit from a large valve.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
From: Fairfax, VA
The problem we're facing here though is that both the AFR 245s and the Trick Flow 245s are cast differently with two distinctly different features:
The AFRs have a larger intake valve at 2.16 vs the Trick Flows 2.10.
However, the Trick Flow heads benefit from the 13.5 degree valves, where-as the AFRs have the stock LSx valve degree of 15.
So its a toss up, between whether the larger intake valve or the better valve angle. Looking at the flow data, the Trick Flows flow better throughout the entire mid-range for the intake, and completely outflow the AFRs on exhaust. the afrs flow better at .200 lift and .600 lift on the intake though.
What do you all think?
The AFRs have a larger intake valve at 2.16 vs the Trick Flows 2.10.
However, the Trick Flow heads benefit from the 13.5 degree valves, where-as the AFRs have the stock LSx valve degree of 15.
So its a toss up, between whether the larger intake valve or the better valve angle. Looking at the flow data, the Trick Flows flow better throughout the entire mid-range for the intake, and completely outflow the AFRs on exhaust. the afrs flow better at .200 lift and .600 lift on the intake though.
What do you all think?
The problem we're facing here though is that both the AFR 245s and the Trick Flow 245s are cast differently with two distinctly different features:
The AFRs have a larger intake valve at 2.16 vs the Trick Flows 2.10.
However, the Trick Flow heads benefit from the 13.5 degree valves, where-as the AFRs have the stock LSx valve degree of 15.
So its a toss up, between whether the larger intake valve or the better valve angle. Looking at the flow data, the Trick Flows flow better throughout the entire mid-range for the intake, and completely outflow the AFRs on exhaust. the afrs flow better at .200 lift and .600 lift on the intake though.
What do you all think?
The AFRs have a larger intake valve at 2.16 vs the Trick Flows 2.10.
However, the Trick Flow heads benefit from the 13.5 degree valves, where-as the AFRs have the stock LSx valve degree of 15.
So its a toss up, between whether the larger intake valve or the better valve angle. Looking at the flow data, the Trick Flows flow better throughout the entire mid-range for the intake, and completely outflow the AFRs on exhaust. the afrs flow better at .200 lift and .600 lift on the intake though.
What do you all think?
LIVERNOIS MOTORSPORTS STAGE 3 LSX/LS7 HEADS
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...LS7-HEADS.html
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,033
Likes: 661
These on a bore that size;nice steep valve angle good airflow
LIVERNOIS MOTORSPORTS STAGE 3 LSX/LS7 HEADS
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...LS7-HEADS.html
LIVERNOIS MOTORSPORTS STAGE 3 LSX/LS7 HEADS
http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...LS7-HEADS.html
The guys is already looking for aftermarket castings. He is already out of the ported O.E. cost category. These are not the DR's that require shaft rocker though if someone has not addressed rockers they may be a better option.
Are you needing to stay cathedral? Hot Rod magazine tested all the cathedrals back a year or so back. Unfortunately the PRC 247cc head wasnt available then so we were only able to send the 237cc version to the test. Checkout the results. I think you'll find a lot of answers to your questions....
The PRC 247 would work really good in your application!!
The PRC 247 would work really good in your application!!
__________________
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com
Jason
Co-Owner, Texas Speed & Performance, Ltd.
2005 Twin Turbo C6
404cid Stroker, 67mm Twins
994rwhp/902lb ft @ 22 psi (mustang dyno) www.Texas-Speed.com