flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

Just picked up my short block after having it assembled at my local machine shop, just gotta get everything else bolted up.
New LS3 block
-3 cc Wiseco pistons, slight dome to offset valve reliefs
Molnar Technologies Forged crankshaft
Molnar Technologies forged rods, Arp2000 rod bolts
Tick Performance custom cam
JP Performance single roller 1x timing chain set w/ iwis chain from SDPC






I'm really impressed with how sturdy the JP Performance timing chain is & zero slack compared to the LS2 chain. Being able to adjust it to degree the cam was nice, as it was out by 4 degrees. Anyone heard of Molnar Technologies? I was told their stuff is same quality as Callies

03EBZ06

Are you sure it was off 4 crank degrees? That is HUGE F'G error in the cam grind or that timing chain may be the issue.

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

Yep. Guy that assembled the short block degreed the cam, installed it straight up dot to dot, was at 105 degrees when its supposed to be 109.

03EBZ06

Cam Motion Cam?

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

Yes, cam motion. Engine builder said theres a variance, could be the cam or chain set. It doesn't have any slack at all in it like the factory chains did!

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

When an Al block heats up the cam moves north due to expansion which is why most chains are loose at room temp. You could end up with a worn front cam bearing if the chain is too tight

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

I don't think its that tight, just doesn't have slack

Kip Fabre

It's your timing set. If the cams out I will give your money back. Those cams set are off sometimes. With the stock gear set up it will be with in .5 degrees.

KiwiKid

Hi Kip,

I can confirm its the timing set, I have the same brand set in my 435ci engine with your camshaft and from memory we had to adjust 4º.

My engine builder was not concerned in the slightest, just mentioned it in passing to me.

Cheers,

Mark.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

So another timing set wasn't used to verify the JP Performance set was off and not the cam?

KiwiKid

Hi KCS,

So let me understand what it is you are saying here, are you really saying that you think Cam Motion's camshaft could be at fault?

Cheers,

Mark.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

I'm asking if another timing set was used to verify it wasn't the cam.

KiwiKid

I am well aware of that KC, and I think you already know the answer to your own question, but just to confirm the answer to your question, no, my engine builder did not consider the need to do anything but make it right. Indeed why would you when any competent engine builder can do just that in a few minutes.

Lets say for the sake of rational discussion that the cam was out, we notify Kim, Kim say's sorry we will send you another one FOC etc, that would have delayed us another week that we did not have. The same thing with the Timing set, just more delay's.

My engine builder has been using Cam Motion cams for many years and never had an issue with there accuracy of quality, however he had not used that particular timing set before. When we get to rebuild this engine we will take a look at the timing set, just to set the record straight.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

I'm not going to get into it with you and derail this guys build thread. I was just curious about the validity of your "confirmation".

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

Thanks! I am glad I posted this, at least I know what's causing the variance. Not that it matters since its degreed in where it's supposed to be. Just wanted to know what everyone thought of my combination of parts in my build & if anyone has heard of or use Molnar Technologies cranks & rods.

flintwrench69

iTrader: (11)

I was kinda proud of that timing set though! Not as much now but I'm running it!

03EBZ06

His comment was non-objective and his comment appears biased to me. I was hoping for a response to your question to put my mind at ease.

I just got my first cam from Cam Motion. I wasn't real pleased w/the performance from my last cam, so when I had the engine and cam removed, I had the old cam degreed first. It was a comp cam and was dead nuts on. After installing my Cam Motion cam, I was told it was off 1 degree using the same exact chain set. This is still not conclusive data, but it is more likely than not this cam is off 1 degree. It was 3 instead of 4 degrees advanced.

As for Cam Motion, he seems like a stand up guy. What I would like to hear from Cam Motion, Kip, is how in his opinion as a grinder, can the advance be off a degree? What causes this? And can I be sure the rest of the cam's parameters are as expected?

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

My Cam Motion cam was off half a degree. 107.5 ICL on the Cam Doctor and it was 108 when I degreed it using a Rollmaster timing set.

Point is you degree your setup. The cam, timing chain, and crank could have stacking tolerances.

I have confidence in the Cam Motion stuff. It's Cam Doctor'd for goodness sake's so you know exactly what it specs out to. Comp doesn't do that.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

Sure they do. They use an Adcole, not a Cam Doctor.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

All Comp gives you is a print out of what the lobe should be based on the lobe master number and LSA/ICL. You have to order the Adcole measurement. It's listed as Part #1-125-1.

For the 399.99 custom cam price, it does not include that. Last I saw it was about $55 to run Adcole on the cam. I've never seen a vendor offer that as part of a custom Comp package. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall seeing it.

It's still good to degree the cam. Especially if you have a one-off Comp custom grind. I've heard from several vendors they can be off a few degrees. However, the bulk "shelf" grinds are dead nuts. But it's still a good idea to measure to know exactly what you have. And again, stacking tolerances can add up.