Best out of box head
I know you know your stuff but I don't exactly agree with this statement Perhaps dry sump and NASCAR caliber parts but not common to us broke *** normal fellas.....LOL
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 43
Likes: 1
From: Toronto, Canada
Novistar
Thank you for the challenge. I also prefer Facts & Results
Vs speculation.
The MMS LS7 Heads flow 412 CFM @ .650" from a Port of only
265 CC. Flow #s by themselves are not worth very much,
but Port Efficiency as measured by Flow/CC (size) & Lift, gives
you efficiency and velocity. All other heads mentioned
with the exception of the Edelbrock/Frankenstein
(more of a drag race head requiring .800" lift and above
to take full advantage of their flow and altered valve
locations etc.) The other heads mentioned all very good
by the way range in size from 280-305 CCs and don't exceed
400 CFM until AT LEAST .700"-.800" lift. Which I would argue
is higher than optimal for a road race application with 8000 RPM
and durability/longevity. The flow #s for the MMS Heads @
.400",.500", & .600" are also exceptional.
With regards to results there are quite a few 600+ RWHP
ZO6s in the Corvette Forum ZO6 section, One in particular
"Tony Mamo heads,cam,ported msd install"
Made 642 RWHP with a medium sized cam (247/261) HR
~12.25:1 COMP W/ E85.
454" Build in progress there also with Solid Roller I Believe will crack
700 RWHP.
My own personal results with MMS LS3s (purchased before the
LS7s were available) 727 FWHP @ 7200 RPM so far with LLSR ( roughly
equivalent to 239/245 HR adjusting for lash & larger
diameter lifters) with 396" 11.7:1 Comp and attention to
"almost" all the little details LOL!
To summarize the MMS LS7 heads on a 4.125" Bore or larger
in a road race application with a LLSR of appropriate duration
and lift(~251*/259* , ~.700"/.680*, LSA and advance specced
by Tony/Kip with Carb) will out perform the previous mentioned heads.
IMO.
Thank you for the challenge. I also prefer Facts & Results
Vs speculation.
The MMS LS7 Heads flow 412 CFM @ .650" from a Port of only
265 CC. Flow #s by themselves are not worth very much,
but Port Efficiency as measured by Flow/CC (size) & Lift, gives
you efficiency and velocity. All other heads mentioned
with the exception of the Edelbrock/Frankenstein
(more of a drag race head requiring .800" lift and above
to take full advantage of their flow and altered valve
locations etc.) The other heads mentioned all very good
by the way range in size from 280-305 CCs and don't exceed
400 CFM until AT LEAST .700"-.800" lift. Which I would argue
is higher than optimal for a road race application with 8000 RPM
and durability/longevity. The flow #s for the MMS Heads @
.400",.500", & .600" are also exceptional.
With regards to results there are quite a few 600+ RWHP
ZO6s in the Corvette Forum ZO6 section, One in particular
"Tony Mamo heads,cam,ported msd install"
Made 642 RWHP with a medium sized cam (247/261) HR
~12.25:1 COMP W/ E85.
454" Build in progress there also with Solid Roller I Believe will crack
700 RWHP.
My own personal results with MMS LS3s (purchased before the
LS7s were available) 727 FWHP @ 7200 RPM so far with LLSR ( roughly
equivalent to 239/245 HR adjusting for lash & larger
diameter lifters) with 396" 11.7:1 Comp and attention to
"almost" all the little details LOL!
To summarize the MMS LS7 heads on a 4.125" Bore or larger
in a road race application with a LLSR of appropriate duration
and lift(~251*/259* , ~.700"/.680*, LSA and advance specced
by Tony/Kip with Carb) will out perform the previous mentioned heads.
IMO.
He did say that he is running dry sump, which will help a lot, so I assume this isn't a "broke ***" budget build. Dart has a fully counterweighted 4" crank now that is about the same price as the Magnum/Dragonslayer cranks.
The FRH heads are garbage. I've seen them underperform numerous times versus other heads mentioned in this thread. Quality control was **** poor and the heads missed the mark from .100 to .700 lift.
If I was building a race oriented build I would look at the CID stuff. I've had PRC, WCCH, Brodix, FRH, and AI heads on my bench over the past few years. I installed a set of the AI 280s last week and looking forward to the results.
If I was building a race oriented build I would look at the CID stuff. I've had PRC, WCCH, Brodix, FRH, and AI heads on my bench over the past few years. I installed a set of the AI 280s last week and looking forward to the results.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
I found a used dry sump sb2 donoven aluminum block 415 ci 4.130 bore at 14 to 1. The heads and intake are ported by RCR. I think I'm going this route because of the pricing building a ground up dry sump ls engine.
Thanks for all the help. I learned a lot about ls engines.
Thanks for all the help. I learned a lot about ls engines.
Last edited by sccagt1racer; Feb 12, 2017 at 06:40 AM.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Likes: 5
From: Texas
I'm building a ground up ls engine for my road racing project. I plan on a 6.125 rod 4 inch stroke and a4.125 bore 13 to 1 compression. The engine will be dry sumped to handle the g force. I plan on using a solid roller cam and will be turning 8000 rpm's. The engine will be carbureted 830cfm on a single plane intake. I'm looking for a head that will suit my needs. would a tfs 260 ls7 head work or do I need something custom for this application?
Originally Posted by sccagt results.[/QUOTE
1racer;19531513]I found a used dry sump sb2 donoven aluminum block 415 ci 4.130 bore at 14 to 1. The heads and intake are ported by RCR. I think I'm going this route because of the pricing building a ground up dry sump ls engine.
Thanks for all the help. I learned a lot about ls engines.
Thanks for all the help. I learned a lot about ls engines.
sccagt1racer,
First and foremost you are building a road race combination. The heads suggested are excellent options, but geared more towards drag race/power adder/street car applications.
NASCAR, Sprint car, Truck series, Trans AM series as well as WRL are all a huge part of our background. I bring that up to give insight on what is needed to perform to pull out of turns as well as sustain a high amount of RPMs over a lengthened period of time. What would be ideal is an endurance/average power combo OVER a high HP number dyno car that wouldn't get you in and out of the turns of a road course.
If you haven't already pulled the trigger, we have plenty of CNC applications that fit your build. I would recommend staying with a stock GM casted LS7 head with our Stage 1 porting which keeps the port volume in the 270 range with a smaller exhaust port to maintain average torque OR our small program Brodix LS7 head, which would be VERY similar to our GM LS7 head, but captures the strength of an aftermarket casting.
Either way I hope this helped in someway shape or form for your build and good luck! You definitely can't go wrong with an SB2 or R07 based motor ESPECIALLY in road race.
-Russ
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Turbo2L Who flowed them is what I'd like to ask. SAM TECH(Chris Bennett) flowed a set for ME and they were within 2-5 cfm of the listed paper work. And the ones I've sent there are running 9's and making well over 700fwhp with engines ranging from 408's to 440's. Go rethink things a bit or find some other quotes.
Most heads if ported by someone who knows what there doing will be within 5 to 20 hp give or take. If you buy Mast/CID/MMS or have a custom port program done.
Hell I created my own Small bore Ls7 heads if you know who I am. Got a spare head being cut in Half so I can see and Know how much material is in the Deck, angle milling & raising the roof more on a Procomp head for $600 even Bare. This subject comes up time to time but the key is Budget and who's product your happy with. Darin Morgan did me a set of 1 off heads because of a theory I had. Now I could have purchased Brodix,TFS,GM,All-Pro $1200+ tax....but why I'm a N/a guy and felt it was overkill to have 2 pay for a casting and have a Custom port program made for myself as well as having the chambers welded. Now some may ask Y. Just because I could and didn't want what everyone else has. There are Alot of good heads and head porters it's all in Who your listening to and what kind of money you've got to spend.
Quality control was **** poor and the heads missed the mark from .100 to .700 lift.
Most heads if ported by someone who knows what there doing will be within 5 to 20 hp give or take. If you buy Mast/CID/MMS or have a custom port program done.
Hell I created my own Small bore Ls7 heads if you know who I am. Got a spare head being cut in Half so I can see and Know how much material is in the Deck, angle milling & raising the roof more on a Procomp head for $600 even Bare. This subject comes up time to time but the key is Budget and who's product your happy with. Darin Morgan did me a set of 1 off heads because of a theory I had. Now I could have purchased Brodix,TFS,GM,All-Pro $1200+ tax....but why I'm a N/a guy and felt it was overkill to have 2 pay for a casting and have a Custom port program made for myself as well as having the chambers welded. Now some may ask Y. Just because I could and didn't want what everyone else has. There are Alot of good heads and head porters it's all in Who your listening to and what kind of money you've got to spend.
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Just want some of these guy's to know don't over think it.
Here's a 416 AI* Ls3 headed E85 build from back in the day(2010) Damn good build to this day for simplicity.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ics-video.html
Flyin from YB with a e85 403 Frankenstein stg1 Ls3 heads & Hyd roller
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...1905482&page=3
Please tell me the Difference. Just Ls3 heads with some work done by someone who know's what there doing, and generally they'll all come in around the same #
Here's a 416 AI* Ls3 headed E85 build from back in the day(2010) Damn good build to this day for simplicity.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...ics-video.html
Flyin from YB with a e85 403 Frankenstein stg1 Ls3 heads & Hyd roller
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...1905482&page=3
Please tell me the Difference. Just Ls3 heads with some work done by someone who know's what there doing, and generally they'll all come in around the same #
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Bolo I Know your build. Didn't get the HP or ET but would think 740 to 770 with mid to high 9's. But a 402 to 416 with a cam in the high 250's to 260's on race gas or E85 done right will produce around the same # with ported Factory Ls3 heads. So go figure.
A 408 with 13:5 comp with a cam in the low 280 to mid 270 range will produce 800 to 870 hp. Given combos are known to make HP, changing heads tends to change RPM points some will make more some will make less 5 to 20 hp in most cases. If you have factory heads get them ported if you have Coin to spare buy a set of aftermarket heads. There Won't be that much of a diff. Preference is the key word along with Budget.
A 408 with 13:5 comp with a cam in the low 280 to mid 270 range will produce 800 to 870 hp. Given combos are known to make HP, changing heads tends to change RPM points some will make more some will make less 5 to 20 hp in most cases. If you have factory heads get them ported if you have Coin to spare buy a set of aftermarket heads. There Won't be that much of a diff. Preference is the key word along with Budget.