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Old 03-17-2017, 06:35 PM   #1
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Default Destroker build

Going to be building an Ls based circle track motor. Anyone have any experience with these? I've read A LOT of guys using 6.0 liter blocks woth 4.8 crank and rods but I'm looking for more cubes. Thinking of going with something along these lines:

Lsx block bored 4.155
3.268 (4.8 stock stroke)
6.5" rods
Obv will need custom pistons
Looking to achieve around 12-1 comp ratio
Not sure about heads yet. Guessing with the bore size and rod length I'm going to want the biggest valves possible so it can breathe. But this is where I am kinda stuck.

I am looking for about 600-650hp N/A with low torque, possibly leaving room to remove from the race car and put in a street car then eventually boost it. Am I looking at overkill here?

I should note I will be initially limited to 358 cu in. I want a soft pedal upon acceleration from the corner due to tire size but high hp to get down the straight.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:51 PM   #2
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Have you seen this video? I love the way this engine sounds at Idle
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:19 PM   #3
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Yes I've seen that. And all the others lol. Looking for a bit different setup... I think
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:39 PM   #4
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Good idea but sounds Crazy and you still want TQ with a Destroked engine. Cheaper Idea 6.0 block with the crank reversed from being turned down to make 358ci. Buy a set of Cathedral style aftermarket heads. Do a solid roller for giggles. Done.

Last set up listed is over priced not over kill. With what was listed and cost the hell with 358ci Go big or stay on the porch with a factory style block.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:05 PM   #5
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4.030 bore with a crank size of 3.510 = 358.2ci I could also put this into the simulator and give you general camming ideas to make 600-650 hp which would take about 10 mins. Typically off *+ or *- 10 hp. I'll get back on later just woke up from a 40 yr old guy nap.
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:30 PM   #6
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If you have the big bore.... you can pick up LS7 heads used for $800-1000/pair that need new guides and most likely exhaust valves plus valve job/dual springs. They have 2.20" Ti valves.... then run the stroke you need for your desired cubes
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:33 PM   #7
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gnx7 post bump....
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Old 03-18-2017, 02:06 AM   #8
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Gnx I know you very well but brother, that's money gone done the drain for just 650 hp. If he has money to waste cool but, just this simple if you need more TQ add a FAST intake and a bit more cam to this Simple build. Go with the bore and stroke combination listed to get 358ci. Or just do as 3pedals did yet destroke the factory crank a **** hair Done.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...281&highlight=

Sorry about the time frame. Gaming. It's still a lot of people up views have jumped.

Last edited by Dark Energy; 03-18-2017 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 03-18-2017, 02:17 AM   #9
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Uncle Jeff @ Houston Engine and Balancing put me on with D about 8 or 9 yrs back good people.

http://milehighcranks.com/

For your factory crank to get that specific cubic inch number listed.


The crankshaft is then nitrided to return it
to its original hardness when all is said and done for a small fee.
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:42 AM   #10
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So lsx block and all that would be overkill....and money wasted. Again I will be using a dist/carb setup so I would likely be using a Victor Jr intake and 750-830 carb. And at around 600 hp I really don't want to have more than 500 or so tq. It's a 2500 lb circle track car with an 8" tire. From a few of the other builds I saw such as the video slogo posted, looks like I'm better off sticking to the 334 ci or so with some aftermarket rods and dome pistons with small cc heads to achieve more comp to get me where I need to be...
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Old 03-18-2017, 07:20 AM   #11
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That build 3 pedals did is damn good and the HP number you asked with TQ. Gear the car to handle the extra TQ and you'd lose a little with taking the factory crank down from 3.622 to 3.510. This could all be done with a JUNKYARD factory Engine rebuilt and having the crank done with a little longer rod.


The LSX build you listed: you'd be out of 5k in just the shortblock.
Block $2500 Machine work $1000+ Pistons and rings $7-900 Rods $600 maybe more I'm thinking Eagle rods 6.5 sounds custom. You still need bearings,oil pump/windage tray/pan,cam,timing chain & cover front/rear etc........



Your budget is KING.

Last edited by Dark Energy; 03-18-2017 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 03-18-2017, 08:32 AM   #12
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Hi Rowdy, yes I have with Empirical Data.

My work started with PML when we created the intake manifold, then fitting MY IGN-8 for the DIS requirement and my coils.
That was provided to Carl Wegner for the GN West NASCAR approved (required) program.
This is where you will get the front cover, my Ford 302 distributor, WP, etc.
(I too can provide for a "one stop" shop)

Next, I would fit a LS-3 "rough 3.93" bore" AL [email protected]" (GM cost $900.00)
I would use my Forged Rods, RaceTec "domed" pistons.

I would use the Hendrick head, notch the block deck top as OEM GM, Ti Intakes@ 2.1".
I would fit the SINGLE TC and sprockets (GN West) I Acquire from Avon Gear.

The Torque would be fine with a 116 L/C camshaft with correct duration.

I would like to help, do a EAP model (free).

My guess is 700HP@ 8000 RPM with my THREE BBL Holley, with Race fuel.

Lance
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Old 03-18-2017, 09:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Bloomquist View Post
So lsx block and all that would be overkill....and money wasted. Again I will be using a dist/carb setup so I would likely be using a Victor Jr intake and 750-830 carb. And at around 600 hp I really don't want to have more than 500 or so tq. It's a 2500 lb circle track car with an 8" tire. From a few of the other builds I saw such as the video slogo posted, looks like I'm better off sticking to the 334 ci or so with some aftermarket rods and dome pistons with small cc heads to achieve more comp to get me where I need to be...
What kind of budget do you have to work with?

I would suggest building as big of a short block as the rules permit and soften the low end torque using the ignition controller to pull timing at lower RPM, then ramp it back in as the RPM/wheel speed increases. Making 600hp at the flywheel isn't too hard with just 358ci, but you're going to need as much displacement and compression as you can get to help out at higher RPM.
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Bloomquist View Post
...............Thinking of going with something along these lines:

Lsx block bored 4.155
3.268 (4.8 stock stroke)
6.5" rods
Obv will need custom pistons
Looking to achieve around 12-1 comp ratio

Not sure about heads yet. Guessing with the bore size and rod length I'm going to want the biggest valves possible so it can breathe.......
De-stroked LS7 with stock LS7 heads, ported MSD intake......more compression and lots of cam.

KW
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:57 PM   #15
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I wouldn't do STOCK LS7 heads.... drop a valve then you'll have to start all over again.
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:07 PM   #16
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You can drop a valve with any head.....

KW
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Old 03-19-2017, 01:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KW Baraka View Post
You can drop a valve with any head.....

KW
You right..... LS7 heads are KNOWN for dropping valves in stock form.
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Old 03-19-2017, 05:06 PM   #18
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To touch on a few guys' responses I should've also mentioned rules allow only steel block with no traction control devices....so changing the timing curve with Ign box throughout the rev wouldn't be an option...at least legally.

Also that 3 pedal build seems a little far fatched to make that kind of power on a otherwise stock 6.0 motor with a cam change and valve springs.

Either way unless I plan on dumping a ton of money for future projects like boost or something, I think the lsx block for the price is overkill. I could probably go the 6.0 block bored 4.030 with a 4.8 stock crank and rods with some forged dome pistons for the short block. Now I kind of want to do a "junkyard" build and outrun these guys with $10-15k SBC's

Should I be looking for a cathedral or square port with a 4.030 bore...? I've read quite a bit pointing toward cathedral for my application. It will be revving 8k for about 50 laps on 3/8 - 1/2 mile ovals on asphalt
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:35 AM   #19
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Was bored so. Purchase a complete 6.0 with rebuild kit/with Melling oil pump have the guy I listed do the crank for around $500 and hardened done, with 358ci not some wimpy 334. No Replacement for displacement. Custom camming with someone who knows what there doing. BTW 600 hp to 650 with a 6liter engine really isn't a HARD number add more RPM and you said 8k for RPM so do the math Easy 600-650 + @ the crank. This 6.2 Ls3 made 518 @ the rear wheels change the intake and this would be more like 535-540 @ the rear wheels =600+ @ the crank. Come on man. 3pedals build may have been a little high but 600 + @ the crank FOR Sure. Use the stock heads and have the Bowls and short side radius done and a little hand porting, Or have them Cnc'ed. Your wanting way more RPM than any thing listed so + for HP and - for TQ also the single plain loses TQ compared to the stock style intakes listed.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/090...er-heads-swap/


http://www.advancedinduction.com/LSX...cGMLS2Head.php
http://www.advancedinduction.com/LSX...cGMLS2Head.php
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...st-2009-a.html

Last edited by Dark Energy; 03-20-2017 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:51 AM   #20
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Dart short deck would be the way to go. A 9.24" deck iron engine will be a pig in a asphalt car if you want to be competitive. You are on the right track with the 4.8 crank too.
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