99TA - 416 build - Stolen, damaged and getting repaired
04-06-2017, 12:55 PM
#41
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Second cheapest car i've ever owned is my 2004 suburban.
04-06-2017, 04:26 PM
#42
Darth, I like the S10 story. Sounds a lot like my white 91 RS that had almost 400,000 miles on the original drive line (no rebuilds) before the LS swap and full restoration. That's great info on the CF DS, sounds like it's well worth the cost.
Regarding worst cars for reliably - worst I've directly seen was the 89 Mercury Sable my parents owned. Countless little issues, blew 1st head gasket at like 20,000 miles, Ford refused to help with repair. Transmission failed at 40,000, Ford refused to help. However, Ford ended up eating the repair cost after a lawsuit. The sorry 3.8 blew another head gasket (other side) at ~ 70,000 miles. My parents ate repairing that. Then at 104,000 it blew the...you guessed it ...other head gasket...the side repaired at 20,000 miles.
The car was traded on the Lexus ES300 which looks like a paragon or reliability compared to the Sable. For like years my parents (always Ford owners at heart) like you really should get rid of that white RS and get an adult car...like the Sable. My reply paying for repairing the head gasket on my wife's 87 Sable is all the Ford ownership experience I can A-FFORD.
I know Ford does make some decently good a friend had had a 5.0 Mustang that had 300,000+ miles on it with few issues.
Regarding worst cars for reliably - worst I've directly seen was the 89 Mercury Sable my parents owned. Countless little issues, blew 1st head gasket at like 20,000 miles, Ford refused to help with repair. Transmission failed at 40,000, Ford refused to help. However, Ford ended up eating the repair cost after a lawsuit. The sorry 3.8 blew another head gasket (other side) at ~ 70,000 miles. My parents ate repairing that. Then at 104,000 it blew the...you guessed it ...other head gasket...the side repaired at 20,000 miles.
The car was traded on the Lexus ES300 which looks like a paragon or reliability compared to the Sable. For like years my parents (always Ford owners at heart) like you really should get rid of that white RS and get an adult car...like the Sable. My reply paying for repairing the head gasket on my wife's 87 Sable is all the Ford ownership experience I can A-FFORD.
I know Ford does make some decently good a friend had had a 5.0 Mustang that had 300,000+ miles on it with few issues.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 04-06-2017 at 05:23 PM.
04-06-2017, 04:54 PM
#44
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LOL hands down the worst I ever owned was an aerostar. that word is banned from being spoken out loud in our family...
04-10-2017, 05:33 AM
#45
CF DS was one of those expensive upgrades I do NOT regret at all. I got it through RPM transmission and also got the DS made with the Strange yoke. The little bit of give and very light weight of the CF really helps tame your driveline vibrations. It made the car more pleasant to drive.
Parts started trickling in over the weekend.
Hoping we get the DS vibration issue wrapped today and can move on.
04-11-2017, 03:38 PM
#47
Darth, you're a bad influence...
...talked with RPM Transmission and a new CF DS is ordered, along with a level 5 T56 and McCloud RST twin disc.
64Post, my build will probably lean to the milder side
I look forward to reading about your project.
Other developments...
Waiting on Kook's to return my call. I need to know if Kook's LT's can be used with the Mufflex OR Y-pipe currently on the car. The Kook's look like they might match up or come very close.
Regarding valve selection, I tend to favor the smaller 2.04 that are easier to tune. I've read the velocity at low lift is pretty low with the bigger 2.1 valves under .200 lift.
...talked with RPM Transmission and a new CF DS is ordered, along with a level 5 T56 and McCloud RST twin disc.
64Post, my build will probably lean to the milder side
I look forward to reading about your project.Other developments...
Waiting on Kook's to return my call. I need to know if Kook's LT's can be used with the Mufflex OR Y-pipe currently on the car. The Kook's look like they might match up or come very close.
Regarding valve selection, I tend to favor the smaller 2.04 that are easier to tune. I've read the velocity at low lift is pretty low with the bigger 2.1 valves under .200 lift.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 04-11-2017 at 03:44 PM.
04-11-2017, 07:33 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by 99 Black Bird T/A
Darth, you're a bad influence...
...talked with RPM Transmission and a new CF DS is ordered, along with a level 5 T56 and McCloud RST twin disc.
64Post, my build will probably lean to the milder side I look forward to reading about your project.
Other developments...
Waiting on Kook's to return my call. I need to know if Kook's LT's can be used with the Mufflex OR Y-pipe currently on the car. The Kook's look like they might match up or come very close.
Regarding valve selection, I tend to favor the smaller 2.04 that are easier to tune. I've read the velocity at low lift is pretty low with the bigger 2.1 valves under .200 lift.
...talked with RPM Transmission and a new CF DS is ordered, along with a level 5 T56 and McCloud RST twin disc.
64Post, my build will probably lean to the milder side
I look forward to reading about your project.Other developments...
Waiting on Kook's to return my call. I need to know if Kook's LT's can be used with the Mufflex OR Y-pipe currently on the car. The Kook's look like they might match up or come very close.
Regarding valve selection, I tend to favor the smaller 2.04 that are easier to tune. I've read the velocity at low lift is pretty low with the bigger 2.1 valves under .200 lift.
I know that the kooks dual bolted up to my cheap *** headers. I see no reason the kooks headers won't bolt up to other exhausts.
04-11-2017, 08:31 PM
#49
TEA does a Stage 3 port job... it's about a grand. 2.08/1.60 valves with a new valve job that they hand finish and blend into the existing port work. You might call Greg Chalet and see if they will do it on the 5.3s. I've toyed with the idea of doing a new 402 shortblock and having TEA do that to my LS6 heads with a mild LLR and then running the Procharger on top of that. The 2.04" valve is good... but on an LS3 bore, you can run a larger valve and it would still have a valve to bore ratio similar to a stock LS1 head.
I say that because the flow numbers above .400 are very close to TFS 235s they do. Under that and it's not, because of the 15 degree valve angle. But the valve job is essentially what they do with the TFS 235s. And that's where like 80% of the power comes from on a ported head.
I say that because the flow numbers above .400 are very close to TFS 235s they do. Under that and it's not, because of the 15 degree valve angle. But the valve job is essentially what they do with the TFS 235s. And that's where like 80% of the power comes from on a ported head.
04-12-2017, 01:20 AM
#50
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Darth, you're a bad influence...
...talked with RPM Transmission and a new CF DS is ordered, along with a level 5 T56 and McCloud RST twin disc.
64Post, my build will probably lean to the milder side I look forward to reading about your project.
Other developments...
Waiting on Kook's to return my call. I need to know if Kook's LT's can be used with the Mufflex OR Y-pipe currently on the car. The Kook's look like they might match up or come very close.
Regarding valve selection, I tend to favor the smaller 2.04 that are easier to tune. I've read the velocity at low lift is pretty low with the bigger 2.1 valves under .200 lift.
...talked with RPM Transmission and a new CF DS is ordered, along with a level 5 T56 and McCloud RST twin disc.
64Post, my build will probably lean to the milder side
I look forward to reading about your project.Other developments...
Waiting on Kook's to return my call. I need to know if Kook's LT's can be used with the Mufflex OR Y-pipe currently on the car. The Kook's look like they might match up or come very close.
Regarding valve selection, I tend to favor the smaller 2.04 that are easier to tune. I've read the velocity at low lift is pretty low with the bigger 2.1 valves under .200 lift.
04-12-2017, 05:52 AM
#51
TECH Veteran
I'm willing to bet a TFS 235/245 headed 416 ci motor will make no less than 660 hp at crank with the heads out the box and intake out the box as well ( Fast 102mm intake) with a 240 or more duration cam.
Looking through my Tusky telescope I remember seeing Richard Holdnerer make 630 horses at crank with a 408ci.
Cam was 240/246 duration...
Fast 102mm intake out the box
AFR 245 heads out the box
Compression was 11.0
Headers was 1 3/4 long tubes
That motor made 1.54 horse per cube naturally aspirated.
Why/where would you make more power than that 408ci?
Go with TFS 245 heads with the N20 exhaust port. Even in naturally aspirated form the exhaust port really shines.
Go with a 244 minimum intake duration cam.
Bump that compression 11.5 to 11.8
Go with a larger header than Richards 408ci. I say 1 7/8 or 2 inch headers will be badass.
Get the Fast 102mm intake lightly ported by Vengeance Racing or see if Rick Crawford will port the intake. Tony Mamo is good but high dollar on porting the intake.
Just my 2 cents on what you have by paying attention to the setup instead of slapping pieces of performance parts together.
Looking through my Tusky telescope I remember seeing Richard Holdnerer make 630 horses at crank with a 408ci.
Cam was 240/246 duration...
Fast 102mm intake out the box
AFR 245 heads out the box
Compression was 11.0
Headers was 1 3/4 long tubes
That motor made 1.54 horse per cube naturally aspirated.
Why/where would you make more power than that 408ci?
Go with TFS 245 heads with the N20 exhaust port. Even in naturally aspirated form the exhaust port really shines.
Go with a 244 minimum intake duration cam.
Bump that compression 11.5 to 11.8
Go with a larger header than Richards 408ci. I say 1 7/8 or 2 inch headers will be badass.
Get the Fast 102mm intake lightly ported by Vengeance Racing or see if Rick Crawford will port the intake. Tony Mamo is good but high dollar on porting the intake.
Just my 2 cents on what you have by paying attention to the setup instead of slapping pieces of performance parts together.
04-13-2017, 04:30 PM
#55
04-13-2017, 05:42 PM
#56
I'm all ears but I've already placed the with order with RPM Transmission for the RST.
While 12 bolts and 8.5's are excellent the I don't think they have the same level of durability with a T56 for the cost. Over the years most of the custom built 12 bolts I've seen leaked. 8.5 I didn't know there was a turn key off the self rear end for 3rd and 4th Gen's. Others may see it differently.
Dana 60's are tough but eat more hp and a bit heavier. For my RS & TA's power levels just more overkill than I need or want. Basically same for 9 inch. On 3rd Gen forum a member did the work himself and built a 9 inch - he had 4 months and about $2350 in it.
I was happy to pay $3200 for my 8.8, spec it exactly how I wanted, order it and have it arrive 2 days later.
Ordered on a Monday and received on Wednesday! Since my 10-bolt was dying/DOA - it seemed like a fair price for the very fast turn time.
I also know Hawk's Motorsports will stand behind the 8.8 rear if issues occur. No hassles and no fuss. I've been a customer since start up like 15-16 years ago...way back when Bruce had a total of ten parts cars
Having an excellent working relationship with Hawk's was also a factor, I'm sure they would have set me up with a nice 12 bolt or 9 inch if I'd asked.
I'm Arctic White 91 RS on TGO - here is my review of the 8.8 rear in the RS. Lots of excellent discussion.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...ports-8-a.html
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 04-13-2017 at 06:48 PM.
04-13-2017, 06:18 PM
#57
11 Second Club
I'm no clutch expert but IIRC Mavn up there had a RST with his 416ci 243 headed car and smoked the clutch first or second time to the strip. The RST really doesn't like heat. He ended up going with the RXT and seems to have no problems. Maybe he will chime in.
04-13-2017, 07:16 PM
#58
I'm willing to bet a TFS 235/245 headed 416 ci motor will make no less than 660 hp at crank with the heads out the box and intake out the box as well ( Fast 102mm intake) with a 240 or more duration cam.
Looking through my Tusky telescope I remember seeing Richard Holdnerer make 630 horses at crank with a 408ci.
Cam was 240/246 duration...
Fast 102mm intake out the box
AFR 245 heads out the box
Compression was 11.0
Headers was 1 3/4 long tubes
That motor made 1.54 horse per cube naturally aspirated.
Why/where would you make more power than that 408ci?
Go with TFS 245 heads with the N20 exhaust port. Even in naturally aspirated form the exhaust port really shines.
Go with a 244 minimum intake duration cam.
Bump that compression 11.5 to 11.8
Go with a larger header than Richards 408ci. I say 1 7/8 or 2 inch headers will be badass.
Get the Fast 102mm intake lightly ported by Vengeance Racing or see if Rick Crawford will port the intake. Tony Mamo is good but high dollar on porting the intake.
Just my 2 cents on what you have by paying attention to the setup instead of slapping pieces of performance parts together.
Looking through my Tusky telescope I remember seeing Richard Holdnerer make 630 horses at crank with a 408ci.
Cam was 240/246 duration...
Fast 102mm intake out the box
AFR 245 heads out the box
Compression was 11.0
Headers was 1 3/4 long tubes
That motor made 1.54 horse per cube naturally aspirated.
Why/where would you make more power than that 408ci?
Go with TFS 245 heads with the N20 exhaust port. Even in naturally aspirated form the exhaust port really shines.
Go with a 244 minimum intake duration cam.
Bump that compression 11.5 to 11.8
Go with a larger header than Richards 408ci. I say 1 7/8 or 2 inch headers will be badass.
Get the Fast 102mm intake lightly ported by Vengeance Racing or see if Rick Crawford will port the intake. Tony Mamo is good but high dollar on porting the intake.
Just my 2 cents on what you have by paying attention to the setup instead of slapping pieces of performance parts together.
I may not be able to afford the best in many cases and have to settle for excellent. I like to built the rest of the car first so it can live with whatever I can budget for the engine in the end. Some say that's backwards, but it's easy to get wrapped up in motor parts and over spend and not be able to make needed upgrades else where. That's what happened with my 72 vette
Intake & headers are probably not going to be what I want this year...maybe next year...
This is not my first build or second or third etc, there is a method to my madness that suits my long term plans for my other 91 RS the black convertible...but that's another story for 2018 or 2019.
The ERL 416 and supporting parts to finish the motor excluding top end and cam have cost $8600
I could have cut corners but I want the TA's old LS1 intact for another project...
Hawk's 8.8 rear end $3200 plus $500 to install at local shop.
RPM Level 5 T56, Carbon fiber drive shaft, McCloud RST twin disc - installed $5800
Racetronix fuel system & install $600
Rebuild TA's old 10 bolt $400 for another car
$1000 miscellaneous maintenance stuff like new shocks, rotors, pads, radiator flush, brake system flush etc
That's basically $20,000 spent with $10,000 left of which install and tune will eat $2000 to $2500 so basically $7500 left to finish project.
Today, I learned we have an issue with my GMPP LPE heads and they will have to be replaced. They have been milled too much on previous occasions and the compression will be too high like ~ 12.5 to 1 after opening the chambers.
This sort of killed my enthusiasm for the project because half of the excitement for me was seeing what we could wring out that old set of heads or other cathedral port heads.
....looks like I'm stuck with rectangular port and need to get educated about LS3 rectangular ports...
So please give me LS3 head suggestions!
New heads are required
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 04-13-2017 at 07:42 PM.
