Anybody ran the AFR 260cc LS3 heads yet???
11-03-2017, 10:19 AM
#21
Neither post holds any weight. Oh I bought this from such and such and it must be the best as he did them BS. As I said it's a copy. Ask the aftermarket why in the hell didn't they add better features instead of the BS they sell or sold you on, Oh we rolled the valves BS. While they were rolling the valves they should have splayed them or added some type of cant. Oh Mast was gonna make it.... But decided not to as it would cut profits with Canted or splayed valve Ls3 or Ls7 heads. No need for the high end stuff. I cut BS as I'll make it or have things made myself. The word: Way was a figure of speech for a cry baby to find fault with. Carry on. Hell Anybody can angle mill a head and roll a valve.
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11-03-2017, 10:21 AM
#22
TECH Veteran
Since people can't stand the truth I'll figure I'll post what I've seen from reading and paying attention.
Looking at two builds
417ci stroker pumped out at 621 hp at 6,400 rpm and 571 lb-ft of torque at 4,700 rpm. This motor featured TFS 255 heads and a fast 102 mm and a 239/255 cam by Richard Holdener. Short block by Texas speed. Motor on Engine Labs website.
Engine 2. Super Size ME 416ci featured in Super Chevy magazine. Motor had LME CNC LS3 heads and pumped out 626 hp with a smaller 235/250 cam.
My point is I still haven't seen a aftermarket LS3 head WORTH the money over a good CNC programmed LS3 head. Call me whatever you want... I'm just posting what I've seen TESTED AND RESULTS.
Looking at two builds
417ci stroker pumped out at 621 hp at 6,400 rpm and 571 lb-ft of torque at 4,700 rpm. This motor featured TFS 255 heads and a fast 102 mm and a 239/255 cam by Richard Holdener. Short block by Texas speed. Motor on Engine Labs website.
Engine 2. Super Size ME 416ci featured in Super Chevy magazine. Motor had LME CNC LS3 heads and pumped out 626 hp with a smaller 235/250 cam.
My point is I still haven't seen a aftermarket LS3 head WORTH the money over a good CNC programmed LS3 head. Call me whatever you want... I'm just posting what I've seen TESTED AND RESULTS.
11-03-2017, 12:02 PM
#23
Mr. Trickflow no hating or bashing I luv AFR,TFS,All Pro, PRC etc....I'm just saying or asking as I've come up with a canted valve Ls7 head in which I'd only weld the intake side and guides and do the same process as having the exhaust welded for smaller exhaust valves & seats. Nothing special just Common knowledge. Yes the aftermarket has a better head in all aspects* how much depends on who's talking. My thing is how they separate the 1% from the avg person in cost. And we know what works best and why they're not made for the avg consumer and we know what works. Yet another version of what the factory sells or makes with some features and we again know what works. So what I'm saying is if the guy's were build the heads said let's roll the valves........What's better than rolled valve's in the *same port configuration? At a 3rd of the cost of race heads and sold to the general public.
That's my whole thing, of why in the hell I can't have a decent Canted valve head for $3k that uses factory stuff. Not rocker arms. I love cylinder heads more than the avg bear. Yogi.
Get your behind to the parade if your in the city for the World Series Champion Astro's. 750k needed.
That's my whole thing, of why in the hell I can't have a decent Canted valve head for $3k that uses factory stuff. Not rocker arms. I love cylinder heads more than the avg bear. Yogi.
Get your behind to the parade if your in the city for the World Series Champion Astro's. 750k needed.
Last edited by Patron; 11-03-2017 at 12:14 PM.
11-03-2017, 12:42 PM
#24
Mr. Trickflow no hating or bashing I luv AFR,TFS,All Pro, PRC etc....I'm just saying or asking as I've come up with a canted valve Ls7 head in which I'd only weld the intake side and guides and do the same process as having the exhaust welded for smaller exhaust valves & seats. Nothing special just Common knowledge. Yes the aftermarket has a better head in all aspects* how much depends on who's talking. My thing is how they separate the 1% from the avg person in cost. And we know what works best and why they're not made for the avg consumer and we know what works. Yet another version of what the factory sells or makes with some features and we again know what works. So what I'm saying is if the guy's were build the heads said let's roll the valves........What's better than rolled valve's in the *same port configuration? At a 3rd of the cost of race heads and sold to the general public.
That's my whole thing, of why in the hell I can't have a decent Canted valve head for $3k that uses factory stuff. Not rocker arms. I love cylinder heads more than the avg bear. Yogi.
Get your behind to the parade if your in the city for the World Series Champion Astro's. 750k needed.
That's my whole thing, of why in the hell I can't have a decent Canted valve head for $3k that uses factory stuff. Not rocker arms. I love cylinder heads more than the avg bear. Yogi.
Get your behind to the parade if your in the city for the World Series Champion Astro's. 750k needed.
__________________
http://www.trickflow.com/emain.asp
Click Above for Product Information
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11-03-2017, 05:18 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by Crf450r420
You want to make better aftermarket heads for the LS? Make it so the stock valve covers bolt on higher and clear adjustable rockers. Why aren't they already like this?
11-03-2017, 05:43 PM
#27
No comment Darth!!!!!!!!! My buddy from Florida we'd need to talk to a valve cover rep....that's just between me and you, no 1 reads now adays. Quiet as kept.
No Mr. Trick flow nailed it. And I would like to hug him for saying what he said. Yea the pistons would be a small thing (cost to have the work done is under $3k). Here's another 1 Mr Trick Flow have a intake that's lower profile that can match the given airflow of the high-flow heads...Not bashing but facts are facts MSD nor FAST can cut it with heads that flow 390 out of the box. I feel real desperate now. Groupies who know heads.
I've spent 2yrs and some trying to figure out the best way to obtain this....
Besides what I said, CHI Pro 3v heads* ford heads on a Chebby. Blasphemy..I don't care. The only problem I came up with, LOL where a new cam pattern, places for water passages, pistons, offset lifters and rockers etc. Some may ask why? All canted valve heads runner sizes measure 320+ also to have a Edelbrock Lsx R custom head made for your engine and rpm cost $5k +. Add in the fact that a Hollow stem valve can't be used as the raised runner asked for a longer valve which in turns makes a weaker valve if hollow. So I thought why not keep it in the same package win win.
No Mr. Trick flow nailed it. And I would like to hug him for saying what he said. Yea the pistons would be a small thing (cost to have the work done is under $3k). Here's another 1 Mr Trick Flow have a intake that's lower profile that can match the given airflow of the high-flow heads...Not bashing but facts are facts MSD nor FAST can cut it with heads that flow 390 out of the box. I feel real desperate now. Groupies who know heads.
I've spent 2yrs and some trying to figure out the best way to obtain this....
Besides what I said, CHI Pro 3v heads* ford heads on a Chebby. Blasphemy..I don't care. The only problem I came up with, LOL where a new cam pattern, places for water passages, pistons, offset lifters and rockers etc. Some may ask why? All canted valve heads runner sizes measure 320+ also to have a Edelbrock Lsx R custom head made for your engine and rpm cost $5k +. Add in the fact that a Hollow stem valve can't be used as the raised runner asked for a longer valve which in turns makes a weaker valve if hollow. So I thought why not keep it in the same package win win.
Last edited by Patron; 11-03-2017 at 06:02 PM.
11-03-2017, 06:04 PM
#28
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Lol!!!!
And in the valves? You’d have to go to titanium. All the $$.
Although I got something scratching at my brain that valve tips popping off also had to do with certain keepers?
And in the valves? You’d have to go to titanium. All the $$.
Although I got something scratching at my brain that valve tips popping off also had to do with certain keepers?
11-03-2017, 06:16 PM
#29
IDK D. But what I said in that text is what I was told by a few vendors. Hollow stem was a no go. Manley does a DR valve I believe or who ever it was said it was a good idea. As I do with a idea I called back some time later. And no from all who I called even said that a guy said it was a good idea. Response was Naw that's something we wouldn't be able to do. Trying to say a buck here and there. Just out of my league $ wise. Figure we could make a set cheaper than they sell them for. Same as before buy a set for $600 and pay for the work was my thinking.
11-03-2017, 11:00 PM
#30
10 Second Club
The statement by Trick Flow TECH was
"CNCd LS3 Heads always make less (NOT WAY LESS)
power then their flow numbers would suggest."
When one misquotes and makes emphatic statements related
to that misquote, one appears Arrogant, Condescending &
Dismissive, not a good look especially for a vendor.
"CNCd LS3 Heads always make less (NOT WAY LESS)
power then their flow numbers would suggest."
When one misquotes and makes emphatic statements related
to that misquote, one appears Arrogant, Condescending &
Dismissive, not a good look especially for a vendor.
There's also the old bad rumour that a stock Ls3 intake is the best and the only intake you'll ever need any time ever.
I'd bet used properly even the cheap GMPP Ls3's could make good power.
Yes the stock ls3 castings can make really good power. A lot even. But they have their drawbacks like bad PTV clearance and a CSA that's becomes too big for a lot of people
11-03-2017, 11:03 PM
#31
10 Second Club
Since people can't stand the truth I'll figure I'll post what I've seen from reading and paying attention.
Looking at two builds
417ci stroker pumped out at 621 hp at 6,400 rpm and 571 lb-ft of torque at 4,700 rpm. This motor featured TFS 255 heads and a fast 102 mm and a 239/255 cam by Richard Holdener. Short block by Texas speed. Motor on Engine Labs website.
Engine 2. Super Size ME 416ci featured in Super Chevy magazine. Motor had LME CNC LS3 heads and pumped out 626 hp with a smaller 235/250 cam.
My point is I still haven't seen a aftermarket LS3 head WORTH the money over a good CNC programmed LS3 head. Call me whatever you want... I'm just posting what I've seen TESTED AND RESULTS.
Looking at two builds
417ci stroker pumped out at 621 hp at 6,400 rpm and 571 lb-ft of torque at 4,700 rpm. This motor featured TFS 255 heads and a fast 102 mm and a 239/255 cam by Richard Holdener. Short block by Texas speed. Motor on Engine Labs website.
Engine 2. Super Size ME 416ci featured in Super Chevy magazine. Motor had LME CNC LS3 heads and pumped out 626 hp with a smaller 235/250 cam.
My point is I still haven't seen a aftermarket LS3 head WORTH the money over a good CNC programmed LS3 head. Call me whatever you want... I'm just posting what I've seen TESTED AND RESULTS.
11-03-2017, 11:08 PM
#32
10 Second Club
No comment Darth!!!!!!!!! My buddy from Florida we'd need to talk to a valve cover rep....that's just between me and you, no 1 reads now adays. Quiet as kept.
No Mr. Trick flow nailed it. And I would like to hug him for saying what he said. Yea the pistons would be a small thing (cost to have the work done is under $3k). Here's another 1 Mr Trick Flow have a intake that's lower profile that can match the given airflow of the high-flow heads...Not bashing but facts are facts MSD nor FAST can cut it with heads that flow 390 out of the box. I feel real desperate now. Groupies who know heads.
I've spent 2yrs and some trying to figure out the best way to obtain this....
Besides what I said, CHI Pro 3v heads* ford heads on a Chebby. Blasphemy..I don't care. The only problem I came up with, LOL where a new cam pattern, places for water passages, pistons, offset lifters and rockers etc. Some may ask why? All canted valve heads runner sizes measure 320+ also to have a Edelbrock Lsx R custom head made for your engine and rpm cost $5k +. Add in the fact that a Hollow stem valve can't be used as the raised runner asked for a longer valve which in turns makes a weaker valve if hollow. So I thought why not keep it in the same package win win.
No Mr. Trick flow nailed it. And I would like to hug him for saying what he said. Yea the pistons would be a small thing (cost to have the work done is under $3k). Here's another 1 Mr Trick Flow have a intake that's lower profile that can match the given airflow of the high-flow heads...Not bashing but facts are facts MSD nor FAST can cut it with heads that flow 390 out of the box. I feel real desperate now. Groupies who know heads.
I've spent 2yrs and some trying to figure out the best way to obtain this....
Besides what I said, CHI Pro 3v heads* ford heads on a Chebby. Blasphemy..I don't care. The only problem I came up with, LOL where a new cam pattern, places for water passages, pistons, offset lifters and rockers etc. Some may ask why? All canted valve heads runner sizes measure 320+ also to have a Edelbrock Lsx R custom head made for your engine and rpm cost $5k +. Add in the fact that a Hollow stem valve can't be used as the raised runner asked for a longer valve which in turns makes a weaker valve if hollow. So I thought why not keep it in the same package win win.
11-04-2017, 05:29 AM
#34
TECH Veteran
I'm go say closer to that 700hp mark you mentioned. Not hating on your build or Navyblue build but take away the LLSR and the motors wouldn't make near the power it does now.
11-04-2017, 08:05 AM
#35
10 Second Club
If I took the LME 416 that made 626hp with the factory castings... How much more power will I gain going to a LLSR and Crower/Jesel roller rocker arms?
I'm go say closer to that 700hp mark you mentioned. Not hating on your build or Navyblue build but take away the LLSR and the motors wouldn't make near the power it does now.
I'm go say closer to that 700hp mark you mentioned. Not hating on your build or Navyblue build but take away the LLSR and the motors wouldn't make near the power it does now.
11-04-2017, 08:07 AM
#36
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11-04-2017, 08:07 AM
#37
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I run the TFS Genx 255 heads and put down the numbers in my sig heat soaked right off the street in hot weather. It has over 700 ft-lbs of tq at 3000 rpm and holds until 5500 rpm. It's FBO with a small baby cam. With a little tweaking it will be over 800 rwhp. They're $$$, but when you consider how much ported stock heads are (with identical supporting hardware), they're not much more and offer additional benefits besides air flow.
11-04-2017, 08:23 AM
#38
TECH Veteran
If I owned a car that had plenty of ROOM under the hood such as a G body, Nova, A body or a 1967-1992 camaro I wouldn't even consider a hydraulic roller but I don't care for working on my car all my time. My 2000 camaro is tight under the hood compared to those older cars. I'll take less power for less maintenance in some cases. And my hands are HUGE compared to the average guys as well. I catch hell just changing the spark plugs in the MF now.
11-04-2017, 08:50 AM
#39
10 Second Club
If I owned a car that had plenty of ROOM under the hood such as a G body, Nova, A body or a 1967-1992 camaro I wouldn't even consider a hydraulic roller but I don't care for working on my car all my time. My 2000 camaro is tight under the hood compared to those older cars. I'll take less power for less maintenance in some cases. And my hands are HUGE compared to the average guys as well. I catch hell just changing the spark plugs in the MF now.
11-04-2017, 09:33 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by Tuskyz28
If I took the LME 416 that made 626hp with the factory castings... How much more power will I gain going to a LLSR and Crower/Jesel roller rocker arms?
I'm go say closer to that 700hp mark you mentioned. Not hating on your build or Navyblue build but take away the LLSR and the motors wouldn't make near the power it does now.
I'm go say closer to that 700hp mark you mentioned. Not hating on your build or Navyblue build but take away the LLSR and the motors wouldn't make near the power it does now.
